Updated Japan tree suggestions topic

[Suzumebachi14]

Rocket launchers/antitank rifles and rifle grenades/grenade launchers

Type 4 experimental 9cm rocket launcher

Type 97 AT rifle with Ji-Te Dan

Type 91 rifle grenade launcher
Type 3 rifle grenade launcher
Note: very few informations about these two spigot type grenade launchers

Type 3 rifle grenade launcher (very likely when we compare with the illustration, it has a collar that the other grenade launcher hasn’t)

Type 91 rifle grenade launcher (as you can see, there is no collar on this one)


Grenades for the launchers:
Note: I could not copy paste the pictures of the website where the links lead, it seems the website forbids that, so you’ll have to go see yourself there
Type 91 Hand, Mortar, or Rifle Grenade (regular frag grenade)
http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section02/FIG_169.HTM
Model 3 Modification 1 Rifle Grenade (regular frag grenade)
http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section02/FIG_183.HTM

Small Incendiary Rifle Grenade (white phosphorus grenade)
http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section02/FIG_185.HTM
Smoke Rifle Grenade (smoke grenade)
http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section02/FIG_184.HTM

Other grenade for the Type 2 rifle grenade launcher already ingame:
30 mm Hollow Charge Rifle Grenade (the one we have ingame is the 40mm one)
http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section02/FIG_182.HTM

Experimental 13.2 mm AT rifle
Note: I only found a “picture” of this one on a japanese 3D model site, I don’t know if it is legit or not.

[Suzumebachi14]

Mortars

Type 10 50mm knee mortar

Type 98 50mm mortar

Type 11 70mm mortar

Type 97 81mm mortar

Type 99 81mm mortar

Type 3 81mm mortar (believed to be a forerunner of the Type 97 mortar shown above, very few informations, it is the only pic of it that I could find)

Illustration for the 70mm/81mm mortars (except the Type 3)

[SzepWaxweiler]

Nice job my dude its sad to see my suggestions never make it to Japanese suggestions posts but no worries here let me introduce you to a few semi-automatic rifle that Japan can get lets start domestically
1-Nambu semi-automatic rifle

2_ Kokura Arsenal from 1940

Man im in phone its gonna take long to do this on phone just be satisfied with these until I get to my PC

[Suzumebachi14]

Machine guns

Type 91 (type 11 for tanks with 45 rounds), fitted with a bipod and a normal stock for infantry use, and without the scope specifically for the machinegunner class ingame

Type 97 without the scope for the machinegunner class ingame

Type 92 : japanese copy of the Lewis, used by infantry (47 rounds only, 97 rounds being only for aviation, a normal buttstock could be adapted to replace the rear handle/stock, there are some without barrel shroud too, so very likely converted MGs from aircraft)

Type 98/Type 1 fitted with a buttstock and a bipod for ground use (same principle as the Type 92 without barrel shroud: this one was a japanese copy of the MG 15 for aviation, but was converted to ground use at the end of the war, designated Type 98 in the Army, and Type 1 in the Navy, 7.92x57mm Mauser, 75 round drum mag, around 1000 rpm)
Clear pic of the aviation version:

Ground use version with buttstock and bipod (the one that could be implemented in the game):

Captured Browning converted for ground use Mk.II* is the exact model, I did not put it in the title because I could not have strong text because of the * (303. British, belt-fed, taken from an aircraft, 1150 rpm)

Type 99 for paratroopers

Type 4 experimental tank MG (belt-fed, 7.7mm)

Rename the “Type 100 machine gun” as the “Type 1 machine gun”, and give it its normal appearance with the twin pistol grips and the shoulder rest, instead of the cursed model that we actually have ingame

Type Hei LMG with 20 round mag

[Suzumebachi14]

Thank you, I’ve added you in the list in the first post. I will do the snipers later, probably this night or tomorrow in the morning. I’m tired right now.

[_DELAVR]

@Suzumebachi14

Type Hei late

Maybe it’s not as interesting a reward, but it makes sense enough that the 5 load magazines fit the later version of the Type Hei as well.

@Suzumebachi14

Tokyo Arsenal 1927 with 30 rounds mag

18, there are 18 rounds, this is indicated by a number of factors, for example in the book 日本陸軍の傑作兵器駄作兵器: 究極の武器徹底研究 the note says that it is possible to load Tokyo Arsenal model 1927 18-round box magazine shown in the picture.

It’s supposed to look something like this.

@Suzumebachi14

type 11 for tanks with 50 or 45 (?) rounds

45 rounds.

I can also recommend my recent thread for viewing.

Encyclopedia of Japanese small arms weapons

You’ll find plenty of Japanese weapons here! I would really appreciate it if you would add a topic in the comments! Some pictures were taken from Killerwolf1024, hope he doesn’t mind, thanks for that.Some pictures were taken from Killerwolf1024, hope he doesn’t mind.

Type 92

<a class="lightbox" href="https://i-enlisted.cdn.gaijin.net/original/3X/9/f/9f65803dc6d1d2954586343baa40b91c694b90b1.jpeg" data-download-href="/en/uploads/short-url/mK5nIAGdTuxTsxMwMOjuvFvwN5D.jp…

[Suzumebachi14]

Nice topic! I hadn’t seen it.
Also I will update the post about the Tokyo Arsenal 1927 mag size, thank you. I thought that the 18 rounds mag was only for the Tokyo Arsenal 1928, which is now lost, and I saw that some sources/topics claimed the box mag was 30 rounds for the 1927. You seem to have a lot of valuable informations.

[_DELAVR]

It is most likely the same store that decided to test on the Tokyo Arsenal model 1927 since the Tokyo Arsenal model 1928 was not yet ready at that time, but this is just a theory.

[SzepWaxweiler]

Thx boss got some new cookies you can add to your list though these are super rare since these were exported in single digit numbers for testing purposes
Approximately from 1927 to 1931, Japanese representatives purchased individual samples of self-loading and automatic rifles from Denmark, France, Czechoslovakia, England, and the USA.
1-Madsen-Rasmusen 1896

The rifle was rejected due to the complexity of the mechanism.(9-10 round)
2- RSC 17

The rifle was rejected by Japanese due to its weight of 5275 grams, frequent breakdown of mechanisms and springs, and a special pack for cartridges.

3- Vickers Pedersen T2E1 Experimental Rifle

the Pedersen rifle from Vickers-Armstrong was purchased in several samples. Pedersen rifle model 1930, caliber .276 (wrantless), non-detachable magazine, loaded with a pack of 10 rounds. The rifle underwent extensive testing and was copied by the Koishikawa Army Arsenal.

4- M1922 Bang rifle

for comparative tests (not for adoption), Bang-Springfield rifles of the 1922 model and Browning systems of the 1918-1922 model (known as the Browning light machine gun. BAR m1918) of 7.62x63 mm caliber were purchase
The rifle was used in comparative tests with Japanese experimental designs.

That’s from me boss keep these until I find more cookies if I find something interesting will post here

[_DELAVR]

At a minimum, there was a purchase of a Thompson M1921 submachine gun, which was tested together with the Tokyo Arsenal model 1927.

But in fact, I would like Japanese weapons, maybe Chinese trophies, but not single copies for tests, in this case we can distribute the same Thompson to all nations.

[SzepWaxweiler]

You are looking very narrowly we dont have records of for example Madsen-Rasmusen 1896 being used in ww2 by any nation but we know that Japan tested them so yeah there is no reason why not give them that and none of the weapons above are in game so I dont see any problem Japan getting them

[_DELAVR]

@Suzumebachi14

I will do the snipers later

Hmmm…
Why don’t I try making a list of weapons?
Japan has a number of pullmets with the ability to mount a telescopic sight, but the Type 97 we have in our game is a gunner’s weapon, not a sniper’s weapon. So I’ll just list the weapons with the ability to mount a telescopic sight:

All rifles of the Type Hei series (Type 97 telescopic sight):

Type 96:

Type 99:

Type Otsu (Type 97 telescopic sight):

Type Ko / Type Ko long (Type 97 telescopic sight):

Kokura arsenal rifle (Type 97 telescopic sight):

@Suzumebachi14

Type 4 experimental tank MG

@Suzumebachi14

Type 91 (type 11 for tanks with 50 or 45 (?) rounds), fitted with a bipod and a normal stock for infantry use

Type 92 heavy machine gun:

[_DELAVR]

There are still questionable options whose existence is in doubt.

Chinese Type 97:

It’s basically a Japanese Tpp 97 captured by the Kaitians, then let’s imagine it could have been brought back to them by the Japanese and put a telescopic sight .

Type 97 (30 rounds):

At the machine gun competition (where the Type 99 won) there was a machine gun that was fed by magazines similar to the ZB 26 magazines (the same we can see in the Type 97), the capacity of these magazines in the Experimental Type 1 light machine gun Model III was 30 rounds, and it is possible that this 30 round magazine was also suitable for the Type 97 machine gun.

[Suzumebachi14]

Oh, nice. I hadn’t seen that the Type Otsu had a rail on it, but the problem with this one is the fact that the rail is mounted on top, and all the japanese scopes I know of are all mounted on the side. Anyway, I’ll write what I had in store for this part. I won’t add some pictures, because you already did most of the guns I had planned, but there are still some not here.

[_DELAVR]

@Suzumebachi14

I hadn’t seen that the Type Otsu had a rail on it, but the problem with this one is the fact that the rail is mounted on top

This is probably why the Type Otsu has the front sight shifted to the side, so as not to interfere with the telescopic sight.

[Suzumebachi14]

Sniper rifles/weapons

Arisaka Type 38 Kai (basically just a factory Type 38 which was converted to a sniper rifle, the only difference with the Type 97 sniper rifle is the fact that it didn’t have a monopod, and it still had the « Type 38 » markings, which potentially make the Type 97 ingame a Type 38 Kai because it doesn’t have the monopod)

You can clearly see the monopod, which the ingame Type 97 rifle lacks

Arisaka Type 99 with 4x scope

Another 4x scope

And the rest that you already posted, I won’t post pics (at least not now, I’ll do it if I have time, but it’s not a priority now).

Scoped Type 96 MG

Scoped Type 99 MG

Scoped Type 97 MG (remove the scope from the standard Type 97 for the machinegunner class, and make the scoped variant available only to snipers)

Scoped Type 91 MG

Scoped Type 4 MG (could be controversial, because this prototype doesn’t seem to have any iron sights, so you can’t just remove the scope and give it to the machinegunner class and keep the scoped version for the sniper class like I suggested for the other scoped MGs, and I doubt that the devs want to give a belt-fed MG to snipers, lol)

Weapons that could be fitted with scopes but unclear if they truly were at some point :

Type Ko rifle

Type Otsu rifle

Type Hei rifle (early and late)

Type Hei LMG

Kokura Arsenal rifle

Most of these weapons are already in the game, but you can see that they all have a rail on the left side for adapting a scope (on top of the rifle for the Type Otsu). I’m personally not a big fan of these, but it’s still an idea to be considered, and if they are implemented into the game, I think all these rifles, except the Kokura Arsenal rifle (which was made in the 1940s) should be fitted with a 2.5x scope, because these rifles were made before WW2, and the 4x scope was adopted later, which makes the Kokura Arsenal rifle the only one which could have got a 4x scope.

[Suzumebachi14]

FOR MY SOURCES
I used different websites, the most well-known being Wikipedia but in japanese, then you just have to use google translate on the page, and you have a lot of informations that the english Wikipedia doesn’t have.

I also used Gun Wiki: Gun Wiki | Fandom for most of the pistols.

Of course, there is Forgotten Weapons: Forgotten Weapons with the website of Rock Island Auction for some of the guns that Gun Jesus showcased.

There is also Military History Wiki: Military Wiki | Fandom

But also some not well-known website, like Lone Sentry, where I found pics of the mortar Type 3 and the spigot grenade launchers: Japanese – Catalog of Enemy Ordnance

I also found another link of this Lone Sentry with more pics of the grenade launchers a few minutes ago, enjoy: 1. Pistols, Revolvers, and Rifles | Section II: Infantry Weapons | Chapter IX: Weapons | TM-E 30-480: Handbook on Japanese Military Forces, Technical Manual, U.S. War Department, October 1, 1944 (Lone Sentry)

Link of the Type 99 for paratroopers: Takedown Guns: Freaky Weird, Crazy Cool - Small Arms Review
Found some info about it here as well: Type 96, Type 99 - Modern Firearms

Pics of the Type 92 (Lewis copy): Type 92 Ground Model – The Armory
Other pics on the same website as the Type 99 paratroopers: Lewis - Modern Firearms

And finally, the very cool drawings of the spigot grenade launchers were found here, there are other very detailed drawings as well: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/japanese-small-arms/

I also have some books on the subject, but of course there are no links.

[Suzumebachi14]

This new Lone Sentry link is a goldmine too, I found some interesting stuff there. Here you can clearly see the differences between the Type 38 rifle, short rifle and carbine:

More pics of the spigot grenade launchers:

Link just in case: 1. Pistols, Revolvers, and Rifles | Section II: Infantry Weapons | Chapter IX: Weapons | TM-E 30-480: Handbook on Japanese Military Forces, Technical Manual, U.S. War Department, October 1, 1944 (Lone Sentry)

[Suzumebachi14]

Ah, and I almost forgot the links to the 3D models of the Type 4 experimental tank MG and the experimental 13.2mm AT rifle:
MG: https://assets.clip-studio.com/ja-jp/detail?id=1940448
AT Rifle: https://assets.clip-studio.com/ja-jp/detail?id=2005986

What I did is: I went to wikipedia in japanese, translated the page in english and went to the classification table at the end of any japanese WW2 weapon page, where you see all the other links to the other japanese weapons of WW2, then I went to the articles, and copy pasted the title (the name of the weapons in this case) of the pages in japanese language, and found the results in the pictures section of google.
Here are the wikipedia links in japanese:
MG: 試製四式車載重機関銃 - Wikipedia
AT Rifle: 十三粍手動銃 - Wikipedia

[SzepWaxweiler]

Hmm Nice I found somthing,too though it is not good for TT since it would cause a red revoulotion but imma say it Japanese had captured AVS-36s and AF(Avtomat Federov)

"December 22, 1938. Order signed by Rikyu Hiroshi, Army Supply Adjutant (at Air Army Headquarters) to the Technical Supply Department. “Conduct a general inspection, description, measurements and drawings, and operating diagrams of the mechanisms of the received sample of automatic rifle. Received on December 8, 1938 from the Department of Registration and Collection of Captured Weapons in a set: automatic rifle “Fuedorofu” type 1925 (フェドロフ 1925式), signal pistol (flare gun), automatic pistol type “Korofuin”, pistol type “Nagant””. Automatic rifle (as it is written) “Fuedorofu” has damage.
Also there was a testing result in this entry under the name “Sakarōfu” which is Simonov in Japanese

From Army Department Main Records Entery No: 7576