Type 100 early correct rate of fire

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This has been a long standing mistake in all sorts of games and web pages.
But before I show some sources lets have a “brief” introduction into the terminology I will be using.

Introduction

Model 3 = Name for a few SMGs that would develop into the initial Type 100 SMG. Visually they’re very similar to the Type 100 and there are about 4 variations but lets not get into that here.

Q: Why Model 3 instead of Type?
A: Because Type 3 would imply 1943 adoption after the Japanese calendar (Imperial Year 2603) according to the naming system adopted in 1929, experimental weapons didn’t use shiki.
試製三型機関短銃 → Experimental Model 3 Short Machine gun
一〇〇式機関短銃 → Type 100 Short Machine gun
(yes I know the number is written first in Japanese “100 Type”)

式 - shiki - type
型 - kata/gata - model
号 - gou/gō - mark

Type 100/40 = The early pattern of the Type 100 SMG, easily identified by the bayonet mounting bar below the barrel and range adjustable rear sight. Adopted 1941.

Type 100/40 Para = Early Type 100 converted to paratrooper configuration with a folding stock hinge. (Called Type 100 Special in IJN documents, I know)

Correct Rate of Fire

Now lets get to the main point, the correct rate of fire.
700rpm. Not 450.
For both Type 100/40 and Type 100/40 Para.

To prove this I have 3 separate sources to share,

  1. A page from a 1943 manual (only image available)

    morio_rof_3_1
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    “Rate of fire about 700 rounds per minute”

  2. An article on the Type 100 from the Japanese “Gun” Magazine, 1976 January. Page 26:

    pg26
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    “発射速度は毎分700発の性能を有している。”
    “It has a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute.”
    This source is particularly important as the author Keiichi Kunimoto (国本圭一) fired the Type 100/40 Para on a US range.
    pg31
    pg311920×1605 238 KB

    He’s an experienced shooter who can certainly tell the difference between 450 and 700rpm.

  3. “Introduction to Rifles, Handguns, and Machine Guns: A Thorough Study of Japanese Small Arms”(小銃・拳銃・機関銃入門―日本の小火器徹底研究) by Sayama Jiro(佐山二郞) a Japanese military historian who wrote several books. Page 390 of this book:

    pg390
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    Sayama writes:
    “十一月の試験の結果、三型改修は機能良好となり、故障もなくなったが、三〇発の弾倉を射ち尽くすのが二・〇秒から二・五秒と発射速度が過大であったので、これを概ね七〇〇発/分を標準とするよう緩衝バネ、復座バネを改修した。”
    “As a result of the test in November, the Model 3 improved function was good and there were no malfunctions, but the rate of fire was excessive, as it took 2.0 seconds to 2.5 seconds to exhaust the 30-round magazine. The buffer spring and the return spring were modified to standardize this to approximately 700 rounds per minute.”
    (note: November 1939)
    No changes regarding the rate of fire are noted after this so the Model 3 700rpm carried over to the Type 100/40 on adoption.

The modified buffer and return spring can be seen in a picture from the 1976 “Gun” magazine article on page 28:

pg28
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Origin of the 450 number

Q: So where does the 450rpm number come from? Basically every English source seems to state it.
A: There are some theories among Japanese researchers, one of them is the diagonal line in the number 7 that some people write, which could make it look like a 4.
I’ve seen some books report the RoF 400-450rpm so this could indeed be possible.
Especially considering Model 3A and Model 3B had a rate of fire of 755rpm, 755->455->450?

I assume no one corrected this mistake in English sources so far because well… the Type 100/40 is rare, I’ve yet to ever see one fired on video. So everyone just copies the number written on wikipedia or from older English books. Maybe one day someone will be able to track down who was the first to make this mistake.

In Enlisted

Alright now, would this change cause issues in the current game balancing?
Well it would make the Type 100 stronger, however I don’t see this as an issue considering there are much worse examples from the pacific campaign levels, such as:

lvl.11 - jp - Type 95 Shin gunto - Sword
lvl.11 - us - Browning Auto 5 - Shotgun

lvl.15 - jp - Sig M1920 (wrongly called MP28) - 480rpm
lvl.15 - us - Owen Mk.I - 700rpm

lvl.31 - jp - Type 4 - 320rpm (semi)
lvl.31 - us - M2 Carbine - 750rpm

So if a difference like on lvl.31 with a SLR vs what effectively plays like an assault rifle (for every rifleman) is ok then I see no issue with buffing both Type 100/40s to their real rate of fire.

As a side note for American SMGs, the terrible Reising could use a better sight picture (currently way too zoomed in) and the M3 could probably do more damage to compensate for the low RoF.

If you made it this far thanks for reading.

Sources

  1. Type 100 manual from the Weapons Course (Showa 18)(1943). image taken from this post: https://twitter.com/matsumotomorio/status/1520738676866658304 thanks to Mister Morio for making me aware of this issue in the first place, I knew this for a while thanks to him but haven’t had the time to put it in a post until now.

  2. “Gun” Magazine, 1976 January edition, images provided by a friend of mine.

  3. “Introduction to Rifles, Handguns, and Machine Guns: A Thorough Study of Japanese Small Arms”(小銃・拳銃・機関銃入門―日本の小火器徹底研究) by Sayama Jiro(佐山二郞) image taken by myself.

Additional sources:

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Mark my words, you’ll get a “Type 100 Late” with 800 rof.

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I don’t know those devs would have enough patience to read and fix it. Anyway, I would like to thank you for such in-depth investigation because your topic broadened my horizon.
Compared those insulting and complaining and discrimination topics (I complain in forum sometimes, too), your post is really valuable, because you have spared so much time to provide valid proofs.

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I mean, everybody knows about Type 100/44 and its 800 RPM that are mentioned everywhere already, it’s just Type 100/40 in particular that seemingly almost every internet source in existence seems to get wrong.

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this all looks japanese to me :stuck_out_tongue:

probably first english author who wrote book about type 100 made a mistake and everyone just copied and referenced him.

btw i was just talking about situations like this yesterday…

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So the Model 3 is accounted for in a few English sources as the prototype of the Type 100 and some of them do reference that it can go up to 700 RPM, however the all continue by stating that the production Type 100/40 as it’s referred to in English had it’s rate of fire limited through the feed system. I’m not entirely sure how corroborated this is in Japanese sources, but from the limited ones I could find and get a translation for, they seem to fall in line with this story. It’s probably likely that the maximum ROF that the Type 100/40 could go was somewhere in the ballpark of 700, however due to unreliability it was artificially brought down. The later Type 100/44 simplified the gun, dispensing with the need for the limiter. This is corroborated by the fact that American reports on the early Type 100s all seem to have a recorded rate of fire in the same ballpark, which they would have had to have recorded before they got their hands on any of the Japanese documents. Granted, it could also be that the Americans when they captured versions of the Type 100/40 were unfamiliar with the platform and could only get it to reliably fire at about 450 rpm, as it is a somewhat tricky system to work with, so that is the number they recorded. That number then overwrote the officially recorded value as that was the commonly accepted value in the English speaking world.

Also about the Sig M1920, it’s already in the game, the 50 round MP 28 is a different gun entirely. Have yet to work out exactly where the devs got it from, but it’s not the Sig. The Sig is at level 28.

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Sayamas book gives the following figures for the Model 3 SMGs (remember what I said, its not just one gun):

pg389
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Model 3 → 530rpm
Model 3A → 755rpm
Model 3B → 755rpm

as I mentioned in my main post the rate of fire was then standardized to 700rpm.
I don’t buy the unreliability theory tho, 450 is a pretty big leap from 700rpm and the gun was tested over and over.
Possibly a repaired capture gun could’ve been the origin, armorer put in a different spring and thats how it ended up working, but thats just a theory.

Do you have any early English sources for the 450 number? The earliest I’ve seen was from 1963 I think.

Also on the Sig M1920, its the 50 round “MP28” gun, if you want to know how to identify MP28 vs Sig Bergmann here’s a good article on that: SIG Bergmann Model 1920 submachine gun

The gun the game calls “Sig M1920” on level 28 is the Japanese Type BE, their version of the Sig M1920 with a bayonet mount.

edit: 3rd time’s the charm, sry if you got 3 message reply pings, for some reason it didn’t reply on the first and on the second I forgot the link. My bad.

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The sources I’m the most familiar with are the American captured weapon reports, and the first few tend to say somewhere between 400-500 rpm. After 1944 though, a whole lot of numbers start to appear as the Americans seem to merge both the Type 100/40 and Type 100/44’s values, ranging from the original 400-500, too your stated 700 to even 1000 according to one report. So the English documentation is all over the place. However, through testing also doesn’t rule out unreliability and the addition of the ROF regulator to counter that, as the Thompson underwent a similar process.

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The RoF “regulator” (changes to buffer/recoil spring) was done before the gun got adopted in 1939.
I’ve seen no evidence of there being changes to them after adoption and prior to the /44 gun.

Also funny the US reports are all over the place, there’s a document by the Japanese Navy that gives the gun the 755 number which is from the Model 3A/B and that same report also says the Type BE SMG fires at 1100rpm which is obviously wrong.

One other possible theory is that very early guns (recall the initial Model 3 was at 530rpm) got pressed into combat, causing confusion. But I’ve yet to see confirmation for that and I kinda doubt they wouldn’t modify those guns to Type 100/40 standard.

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*was done before the gun got adopted(1941), in 1939.
Just noticed this could be read wrong

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Even USA’s own M50 Reisings have incorrect reported fire rate - official 500 rpm, while users report 750–850 factual rpm.

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That is also possible, from what I read it was the early model 3s that got sent to Guadalcanal in small numbers so maybe that is the case, but who knows. All I know is the first few records about the Type 100 in American hands line up with the 450 number.

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Here another mess of english historians who was never fixed

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By the way, “Type 100 paratrooper SMG” , actually called “Type 100 SMG (Special)” / 一〇〇式機関短銃(特) was navy model of Type 100 SMG, and generally its basis on late model.
Therefore, anyway RoF would be over 700rpm… (IJN’s document says RoF was 750rpm)

IJN’s textbook:
https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/img/1724884

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… navy model of Type 100 SMG, and generally its basis on late model.

the late model is the simplified gun, Type 100/44 in the west. As far as I know the Army also used the paratrooper model.

I did say in my post that I know the navy calls it special (because someone was going to bring it up) but for simplicity I went with “/40 para”

(Called Type 100 Special in IJN documents, I know)

As for the number they give I don’t think the navy documents are too accurate, they also give the Type BE a RoF of 1100rpm which is completely wrong. The 750 number in the Navy documents could be from the number of Model 3B guns that got converted into Special pattern or just a mistake.

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Hats off to OP for his detailed research, even checking “GUN” in the 70s(Where did you get it?can you read?). I hope the developers will look through this.

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