I have already discussed this topic on the Russian forum and have adjusted my position slightly. Here I will explain everything more briefly and give specific ways to solve the problem:
The essence of the problem:
The airplane is now the universal, fast, reliable and easy answer to any problem on the battlefield:
Speed
An enemy tank? Took the plane, revived in 15-20 seconds you are already attacking it with missiles or bombs. To stop you during this time is impossible (from the respawn the plane flies for less than 30 seconds, during this time it is impossible to take a fighter in response, build anti-aircraft guns or at least have time to see him often)
Reliability
If you want to clear a point from enemy infantry or kill a tank, you do it almost 100% from the first run, without risking anything, because of the proximity of the respawn can not stop you.
In addition, there are very few types of danger for the plane: another plane and an anti-aircraft gun. Everything.
For tanks, the dangers are: explosive packs from every soldier, mines, grenade launchers, other tanks, planes, anti-tank guns. Literally any soldier on the battlefield can destroy a tank (so only a competent tank can fulfill its purpose completely)
The difference is huge. Your team may not have players with a plane or engineer squad, or they will not be available because of squad rotation (all the time).
Versatility
The plane hits infantry and equipment equally well, you do not need to switch shells like on a tank, you do not need to target infantry with a machine gun. You just fly out, look for the target and destroy it. A capture point full of infantry? Boom, 15-20 kills. A tank? Boom and went to rest.
Not all tanks are good against infantry: some have a small caliber gun, some have slow turret rotation or long reload time. However, missiles and airplane bombs are equally good at destroying everything.
Simplicity
A bad tanker will be destroyed in one minute, but even a mediocre pilot who just doesn’t crash into the ground can safely fly the whole fight, because there are very few potential threats and they may just not exist in the enemy. You don’t have to look for a position like on a tank, be alert to your surroundings so you don’t get approached by an infantryman with explosives, you just fly and kill.
Your first attack after the respawn is physically impossible to stop. You fly faster than an anti-aircraft gun is built. So it is an easy “revenge” on a tank or cluster of infantry that requires no skill.
To make the problem more concrete: the plane has too few threats, and all of them are not the most private in the matches, but it destroys everything on the ground equally well, and most importantly quickly.
Solution:
It consists of several points, which in no way prevent good pilots from winning matches, but make the planes more balanced:
the flying time from the respawn. It should not be less than 40-45 seconds. Otherwise the plane strikes instantly and cannot be stopped.
Ground threats: I think there is a very simple solution. Any engineer, even if not in a specialized squad, should be able to build a “mini-antiaircraft gun” - it will be a stationary unit with one rifle or large caliber machine gun (depending on the campaign). It will have no protection for the gunner, making him vulnerable to enemy infantry, will have a severely limited tilt angle (35-45 degrees up) so that it can never be misused, and will cost solid resources.
Now every squad with an engineer will at least theoretically be able to do some damage to airplanes. Shooting down a plane with a single 12.7 Browning in Normandy or with a mg15 will not be an easy task, but now the situation will be closer to a tank vs infantry balance, where almost every infantryman can kill a tank, and tankers think about it. Pilots need to be more careful and their comrades on the ground need to suppress such points
Increase the number of squads to rotate to take a plane (maybe only attacker class) to 3 or 4 instead of two. This will reduce the number of “merry-go-rounds” where the player never gets off the planes and make him value his life more, besides, every plane shooting down will give the team a break from spamming.
Add a text alert “the enemy has taken an attack type plane!”, like with the bombers in Stalingrad. so the engineers know to get ready, the infantry look for cover, and the players take the fighters.
In return, I think you could give the planes an auto-repair point about twice as far away as the ammo replenishment point. That way the pilot can recover “random” damage on it and is in the sky longer if he doesn’t let himself get shot down, sacrificing attack frequency.
These steps do not destroy planes as a class and will not affect experienced pilots in any way, but they will not allow planes to be used as instant revenge and solve any problem mindlessly, as it works now.
To give you an idea: I’ve played 1,700 games with a kd of 2.5
I’ve done 17000 kills on a tank and 7000 on a plane, which seems pretty big to me (although I play a lot more on infantry).
This addition is needed so that I don’t get a “skill issue”. This post didn’t come up because I don’t know how to play, but because I see the most effective things on the contrary.
I think that the best solution remains to allow the fighters to do their job, by offering them an experience bonus for each plane shot down, but above all it would be to correct the bugs concerning the damage done to the planes, especially the heaviest ones. Right now, having to empty hundreds and hundreds of bullets just to scratch an airplane is frankly discouraging, and I think it is because of that that no one is trying to shoot them down.
for this to work you would need some sort of message/warning when an enemy spawns in a plane. it doesnt matter if the fly time is 10 minutes, if the enemy doesnt know there is a plane (which they wont), the first run will be pretty much unstoppable regardless and the extra time wont matter.
40-45 seconds is also not nearly enough time to shoot a plane down before it can get of its first run, even if you know when its spawns. the first run will hit regardless
correct. this would be pretty much impossible with the current damage models. so this wouldnt really do anything at all
this would help if one person is cycling aircraft squads yes. but it wouldnt stop another person from spawning in a plane the moment you shoot one down. so if there are 2 flyers on the enemy team they wouldnt really get a break from said spamming
i dont even really agree that there is a problem to begin with, its been a long time since bombing has decided games. i just feel like if this stuff actually was this big problem that you are saying it is, these 3 solutions wouldnt really do that much
There is no domination of planes. Any plane is food. The more planes in the game, the more interesting it is to play. I always lack equipment in the game, as many planes and tanks as possible. Because destroying only infantry is very boring. All the most interesting battles for me were when there were a lot of planes and a lot of tanks against me. Here are a couple of screenshots. One of my most exciting fights was when I destroyed 20 pieces of equipment. And the second screenshot is when I destroyed 14 planes with one detachment of engineers and never died. It was very fun and interesting!
I’ve already added the text about the alert. It’s definitely needed. It will give the engineers a chance to build an anti-aircraft gun and the infantry to seek cover.
Yes, a fighter is unlikely to intercept even if the time is 50 seconds.
The main thing is that the plane’s departure will not be instant and easy revenge. Now if you are killed by a tank, you take the plane and in 15 seconds you kill it. He can not save from that. That said, a tanker can go to a position and two minutes, and you only need 15 seconds.
So I don’t believe that if an engineer in any squad builds this, the planes can’t live. It just gives all players a chance to defend themselves.
Yes and no. If I kill the plane and the enemy doesn’t show up on it for the next 3-4 squads, it’s definitely better than two.
Some planes make hell, like the p47. I don’t mind them being strong, but first, every player should have the right to defend themselves (as in the case of tanks, where any player has a good way to blow them up).
And the plane shouldn’t be an instant kill for anyone. It’s too effective at quickly destroying everything on a point or a specific tank, and that can’t be hindered.
All I am suggesting is to let tanks know the threat in advance and think about their position, and for engineers to build anti-aircraft guns.
you are very much overestimating planes. the only aircraft i may actually consider “too effective” would be the p-47 and the ju 188, and even for those i wouldnt really say its all that bad anymore. but those are 2 planes which both only exist in only one of five campaigns, which doesnt really warrant a “nerf” to all planes across the board
(i would even consider most planes outside of normandy to be underwhelming at best right now)
i will grant you this though.
if you know how to aim bombs (or just suicide bomb), bombs can be incredibly effective at dealing with tanks. and they should be
I agree with you. Even 2 of these strong aircraft become ineffective when the infantry is in the houses. It should also be noted that tanks are also not always visible from the air-if they are not marked or if they are not actively shooting, especially in some forest they can be difficult to notice.
But that doesn’t mean that you can be offended by a tanker and kill him in 15 seconds, whatever he’s doing.
Any infantryman can kill a tank in a second. Can he kill any airplane? No.
I see no reason not to allow every player to defend themselves and for people to KNOW that danger is moving toward them.
Time is of the essence in the game. A tank takes a minute or two to get into position, a plane takes 15 to destroy it. That’s way too fast. Make it 40-50 seconds from respawn and suddenly people will start using the plane as more than just a kamikaze revenge missile
“They should be.”
In life there were plenty of anti-aircraft guns on the front, in the game there are absolutely not that many.
Planes risk nothing when destroying tanks, because only specialized squads can fight against them, who do not even have enough time to react when the plane flies away from the respawn.
Why is a tank vulnerable to everything on the map and this is the norm, but a plane is not?
3-4 is a lot. If I want to fly, I shouldn’t be oppressed just because you want to play on a tank. I repeat to you once again: any plane is fodder and easy prey, especially for those who have invested money in the game.
No, if I want to ride a tank, not any pilot should be able to kill me in a second. Obvious bias.
A plane can kill a tank, but a tank cannot kill a plane. Reduce the damage of missiles and bombs on the tank so that the plane makes the effort to kill the tank and ok.
But no, you think that the pilot must farm the entire map. Sorry, players in the game should have the same fun, not 1 king slot to destroy everything.
Tankers play with the understanding that everyone has weapons to kill them, planes don’t bother with anything.
Normandy, however, my measures are not something that will make the planes terrible.
Bombs should not fall to the ground 15 seconds after the plane appeared. It is literally instantaneous.
40 seconds and an alert allow players to take at least some action.
Well, and “light anti-aircraft” is fine for any engineer. In Moscow it would just be rifle-caliber machine guns.
i can do the same myself with AT weapons, my own tank, or even just a detpack depending on where the tank is sitting. you can also be offended at an airplane and kill it with a fighter. you can also get offended by a mg nest and kill it with a sniper. its just how the game goes
you also have the option to move the tank a little every now and then, or place yourself in a place thats hard to bomb. there are ways to reduce these risks as a tanker aswell
well the primary reason for people suicide bombing is that its not worth it to stay in the plane after the annoying tank is gone no? otherwise they would have made an effort to stay in the air.
people will suicide regardless of if its 15 or 60 seconds because score per minute is much higher on the ground. atleast thats what it seems like to me.
i dont know what you propose we do about this. its a plane, the only way to deal with planes is AA or other planes, thats just how it is
but even with this “restriction” on how you can deal with planes in game, they are a far cry from having a significant impact on the outcome of a match and are pretty balanced overall
Just yesterday I was shooting at some aircraft in Tunisia with a 20mm AA gun, I emptied all of my ammo into him, most of the rounds hit, he just kept bombing, rearming and coming back. My hits were having so little effect that he wasn’t even trying to dodge them, just attacking in a straight line and flying off to rearm.
And lots of times you spent 5 minutes working on one plane and getting hits only to have him crash and get no reward at all because he “killed himself”.
So what do I get from all of that trouble? Not even the measly 180 or whatever points it is to kill a plane, I could have just ignored it and gotten like 4 regular kills easily and made more xp.
No you can’t. Any of these ways can be destroyed by a tank. I keep an eye on the infantry, on enemy tanks, and don’t let them near me. You can never kill me 100%.
However, a plane will always do it if it wants to. Especially in Normandy a hail of 6-10 missiles will always kill you, even if the pilot is a beginner.
I don’t mind when both sides can kill each other, but not when one of them has carte blanche, you know?
I know a tank can’t shoot down a plane, but giving all the engineers a LIGHT anti-aircraft gun and adding a warning about an approaching plane is okay for people on the ground to try to defend themselves.
When you’re in a tank you can’t hear the plane, especially when it hits you with missiles 15 seconds after it appears.
Yes, but the longer it takes them to fly before they hit the ground, the less motivation they have to do that, don’t you see?
If the flight from the respawn was equal to the range of the replenishment point, then players would not do suicide so often, it’s obvious. Efficiency drops, it’s easier to go back for a refill and attack again, or do not take the plane at all.
Any engineer can build an anti-aircraft gun, the plane flies from the respawn 40-45 seconds, when it appears you see the notification. That’s all, that’s enough to prevent the plane from having the possibility of banzai attacks.
Here is a good illustration of your words. This is a bug. The damage just doesn’t count. This happens often even with a 37 mm aircraft gun at the BF110, it often happens that the aircraft withstands a series of hits from a 37 mm cannon and continues to live. In general, the damage of everything related to aviation is completely broken in the game. P.S. If the damage passes, then the anti-aircraft gun is a super weapon.
I would be happy to see they give U.S. even more powerful planes and tanks like Super Pershing, vehicle spam is an essential part of gaming experience in Normandy, spamming P-47 is just fun.
Now I almost play U.S. exclusively, cause Axis has nothing to attract me.
A good pilot will always destroy a good tanker-this is an axiom. You compare a tank and an airplane - these are incomparable and obviously different things. I think you’re just offended that your tank is often killed. I understand you. Because when I take my fully pumped tiger in Normandy, the hunt immediately begins for me. Because this is a mega tempting goal and a big jackpot. I agree with Karl, any Tank, even without aircraft, is easy prey and fodder. With the exception of some situations and maps like D-Day, where a Tiger or a Panther stands in a gray zone if the enemy does not have a tank with a strong cannon and the infantry cannot get close. But in general, the plane is also food. It’s just a different technique and specifics-do you understand? Any average player can easily resist planes, especially someone who has invested money in the game.
