Well, I’m really concerned & afraid at the same time of the monetization scheme that Enlisted will adopt, from the information that we already have it’s really isn’t in favor of the game. This thread is more to the developers than my fellow Enlisted testers (those who were in the closed alpha mainly & now the close beta also) but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t concern them as well.
As I see it that Gaijin want to apply some of the monetization schemes they are already using for War Thunder, such schemes could easily hurt the fundamentals that Enlisted are laid upon (Gameplay experience & balance). It stands that the game between Paying player & Non-paying player is really huge that will affect the Non-paying players in extremely negative way driving them away from the game & without them this is another Marvel Avengers!, the example is already there. Even the pay for convenience (Premium Account) is really touching on balance (power/power-up) in a way that is not healthy for the game.
Please deer developers consider doing another poll to change the game from being Free to play into a Paid product, please time is not lost yet as the game didn’t even release & still have considerably long road ahead of it to be ready. Please my fellow Enlisted testers voice your opinions, if you are with the change for it to be a Paid product or not, let’s use this post also as an sort of community poll (don’t know how to do them here if possible, if anyone have experience on this field I’ll appreciate the help), Let you comment start by “Paid Product” in support of such move or “Free Game” if you are supporting it releasing as a free to play game.
Thank you for reading this, to all who are really passionate of seeing this game being the best there is, please let our voice at least be heard by the developers. Although, it’s completely up to them to listen or not.
They seem to be taking the exact same path as with crossout, where you have to buy a pack to get into CBT.
In crossout the pack also gave you a headstart just like here, but at least they did not give you exclusive items.
The biggest issue with these squads right now is that with the removal of the shotgun squad, you can no longer have 3 squads with automatic weapons unless you buy the premium squad.
The premium soldiers come with a fully upgraded SMG, 3 medkits and 1 explosive per soldier, after 1 battle they unlock all weapon and equipment slots, as well as the ability to bring 3 extra Assaulters, for a total of 7(!) SMGs in a single squad. The premium soldiers also come with re-roll points for the perks and enough perk cap to take 5/6 of the OP perks including the following:
15% sprint
35% extra HP(!)
70% less vertical recoil
200% more heal from medkits
100% extra ammo
100% extra stamina
If this squad contained 1-2 engineers it would objectively be the best squad in the game, making me pretty afraid as to what else is to come.
I would suggest that having premium squads would do the following:
1: use the same levels as the squad they represent (in this case it’s the SMG squad, meaning that if you don’t have the SMGs maxed, neither will this one be)
2: do not allow for the premium squad and the normal variant of the squad to be equipped at the same time (so no double SMG squads in this case)
3: make the premium squad composition (nearly) the same as the normal one (so sniper, engi, gunner instead of 3 extra assaulters)
4: make all soldiers out into them look like the premium soldiers. (but back to default when taken out)
5: give premium squads +100% XP towards campaign progression and +100% individual soldier progression for the soldiers in the squad.
Just my 2 cents
Alternatively we can always go back to the “buy entry per campaign” method. Hopefully they won’t force that through our throat while also keeping the F2P RNG progression.
This squad has cons and pros and may not be considered as pure p2w. Its made for newbies to help them actually fight while they have no real game experience and campaign progression.
Once you progress - you will definitely will want to try other squads. 3 squads with MGs is not must, and here comes the downside, you have 3 squads where 1 is already taken by a premium unit that is being not able to progress anymore.
To actually keep playing and have this ‘progression’ feeling you will want to choose 2 additional squads, and the choice wont be that easy:
light machineguns (100%)
ingeniers if you’re minecrafter and love stationary
flamethrowers someday
mortar squad
snipers, pretty useful for rifle based squad with artillery (you’ll get the idea later depending on your play style and needs)
Considering:
1 squad: premium
2 squad: LMG
3. one of 4 to choose from
in addition to these, you will want to level up AT squad, regular soldiers squad and arty squad to unlock upgrade options for weapons and barracks increases AAAAAND if you may want to play with tanks or aircraft this would decrease your infantry rotation even more.
thus: the last but not least - regular machineguns squad is the last thing you need in this game if you have premium squad, and 3 machineguns is definitely a bad idea, at least during first months while you’re leveling each and every squad and progressing through main campaign. 3 MG squads is END game meta build (personal score meta, wont help your team), therefore you shouldnt see that as a problem and p2w right now.
Can’t agree with this since the “Premium Account” would set it to double which would make it trivial to progress in the campaign compared to a Non-paying players, the game is already huge with the “Premium Account”.
Its not premium account like, its a weird shit that you dont even notice in game. Just some additional exp only for kills made from premium units. I couldnt find any difference in exp gain as stats are not so detailed regarding exp gain.
That is not an argument to be made, since that Premium squad would be able to contribute way more to the campaign compared to all the free squads provided by playing the game, if you didn’t know it already SMG & LMG squads are the best when it comes trying to progress through the campaign due to how they can easily get high kills (if played correctly), this Premium squad give a well-equipped squad with a weapon that is better than the squad obtained by playing (It’s about time for the gameplay obtained squad to reach close to the premium squad but still even with that the premium is better overall).
Take a look at this thread if you have the time, Exp gain rates
Like in any other game you have premium account + bonuses from premium units. Nothing special. What i have pointed - is that you dont really see this bonus from premium unit, its definitely not equal to premium account and barely does help you to progress right now. Im serioisly concerned to find the proper way to test this and see if this bonus works at all.
Overall - im not going to argue about any exp bonuses and wont consider this as a problem and p2w. Time = money, in any f2p game. You spend your time, or you spend your money. P2W mainly refers to items and not time consuming options. You can have another opinion, i accept this, but for me its different, i see no point in discussing and complaining about progression speed between free players and payers.
My feedback in this thread refers mostly to item based differences, explaining that a premium squad with superior soldiers and weapons are not ‘must’ thing, as they have downsides and actually decrease soldiers progression in its own way (you level up only 3 soldiers in squad instead of 7 while exp from another 4 is just lost, this is a serious concern and tradeoff for weapons).
I have nothing against such items in the future, while they keep maintain the logic bringing items with cons and pros for the different purposes. I call this a “variety” of options considering monetization model, and not a p2w mechanics. Having more options for money is obviously an advantage, but thats how our life is, you fight against others advantages from your born even if you dont notice it.
That is yet to be discovered & known as such in-favor arguments are invalid. However the argument here is mainly that Premium account is creating such huge gap between a Paying player & Non-paying player to the point it’s affect balance & gameplay experience, that is the issue the Premium squads are just more of the previous than anything else.
Recently, there is the example of Marvel Avengers & due to the lack of players the game met it doom, I’m not comparing the 2 games here obviously they are different but they live one the same formula, no player = death. With the free players (which would be major part of it’s player base) leaving or stopping to play it would reach the level of Marvel’s fate, however this game fill in spots with bots but you can ask anyone who have been testing the game & they will tell you how the feel & match went on.
I really want to see you comparing the 2 squads ( Premium SMG vs Normal SMG) fully from the ground up covering everything on both states, getting them very fresh & progressed (important to do both). Such thing would not only be good information for the players but I would say the developers well to see the gap between the 2.
Due to how the progression is tied with power-up systems in the game basically unlocking stuff faster wither it’s just the campaign or the lvl of squads it provide an edge over a player that don’t have access to them.
I’m not sure if I got you clearly here but to your knowledge, only exp gained by assaulter soldier are counted toward the squad exp, this works this way for all squads in the game only that respective squad soldiers can contribute to the squad progression.
The concern is the disparity or the gap between a Paying players & Non-paying players, & from how stuff are sailing it’s not in-favor of the game’s health. Everyone knows that Free to play game got to generate money somehow, this is in-line with aim of this thread, the proposal is to change it to a Paid Product to avoid what would potentially kill the game.
squad (from all soldiers kills within a single squad)
soldiers (from single unit kills only for this single unit)
Premium squad exp:
yes
no (its maxed)
partialy, only to 3 regular machinegunners. Every kill made by 1 of 4 premium soldiers will be lost, as it counts only for those units while they are already maxed.
Regular machinegunners squad exp would be:
yes
yes (while its not maxed)
yes (while its not maxed) - each and every soldiers (4 machinegunners, 1 sniper, 1 ing, 1 soldier)
Which means if you play with regular MG squad and swap soldiers as soon they are maxed - you never loose any exp, this is how it should be done in order to follow base progression logic.
Having leveled enough of this regular units - you can evolve them into anything you want.
Playing with premium squad you will have much less evolved soldiers, because you loose a lot of exp made by this superior soldiers, especially if more than half of your kills are made by them.
At the end of the day you end with premium squad and 2 squads 4 stars each, against someone with 3 squads and 5 stars each. This is the negative impact of using fully leveled premium units and "type locked’ squad. In addition to this at the end of the day your ‘mp41’ wont be much better than premiums one.
Honestly to say i wish they would lock this guns for squad only and not for squad soldiers, and allow to use 7 regular machinegunners to actually let them progress keeping premium soldiers in barracks. Until then i see this squad in my rotation as ‘expensive’ toy which drains my exp each battle. The price for ‘no recoil’ noob guns.
Because the gunner squad and assaulter squad are both capable of bringing an engineer, there is no need for a dedicated engi squad. Same thing for the AT squad, as the gunners can bring a bomber and AT grenades get the job done most of the time anyways.
Mortar squad got donked on with the nerf making them practically useless
Flamethrower squad still didnt get a range buff, making their range much shorter than would be realistic, rendering them effectively useless as well
Arty squad isnt that good, grenades get the job done just fine
Sniper squad is entirely redundant as you can bring bolt action rifles on your assaulters and gunners.
This leads to the assaulter and gunner squads being meta. Origionally the shotgunner squad would have been included as it could carry the M38 SMG (for germany), but they have been removed so only the premium SMG squad remains.
Also, using the squad only hurts your progression towards squads and soldiers, not towards campaign. But as you already have maxed out soldiers, you don’t need that as much.
Thats why they are not included to the list, isnt?
Still might be intersting choice for some people. I play it currently.
Still better than playing 21 machinguns, isnt?
Not listed.
No point. Assaulters and gunners should not have any soldiers, while sniper squad is perfectly suited for it as supporting rifle managed squad. Think of it, it has a very good purpose when it comes to tactic and teamwork over personal score.
Exactly, thats the point. Campaign progression has not so much impact on balance when you meet someone on the field. In the face to face it only matters how better your recoil is, if enough ammo, reload speed, and so on. Your progression and mortair in the backpack wont help you win in a duel. Making ‘campaign’ progression to priority is just wrong, people will suffer from it afterwards, asking for ‘more content’ and dying from 5 stars and veterans soldiers even using premium squads. Im pretty sure you wont notice premium guns in a months, simply because regular mp upgraded to 4 stars will do same shit and mg13 even more of it.
In terms of getting the most kills per match, 21 (S)MGs is actually what you want. Although currently you can have up to 17, as 2 on both assaulter and gunner do not get access to automatic weapons.
I’m not talking about soldiers, I’m talking about secondary weapons. Also, often enough, annihilating the enemy team is enough to secure you a capture point. In invasion, that’s all that’s needed to win. In conquest, you do it on their closest point, so they have to contest our closest point and middle point to have a chance to win, which generally leads to them owning the middle point and losing anyways.
More campaign progression = more loot boxes with weapons and soldiers. After maxing out all your soldiers and equipping them with maxed out guns, what else is there to do? They would be just as strong as the premium squad soldiers and you would have played months to get there.
If thats all you care - yes. But you cant expect everyone prefer that way.
There are good reasons to not use bolts as a second weapons. Not going into details.
Often anihilation reflects disbalance in the teams, meaning you would win anyway, but due to overhealming disbalance you’re allowed to anihilate. In balanced fights you dont do that ‘super high score’, in balanced fights you can loose even through you or even your whole team has better score. This happens to me daily, so with hand on heart i can claim it happens ‘oftens’ too.
I have maxed 2 squads during the weekend. 92 lootboxes overall.
Exactly, you will be able to max your weapons and squads pretty quickly, but maxing soldiers will last forever. If you dont focus on it right away - you’re just wasting time. Forcing campaign progression is dead end, it only reflects how much you play and gives you options that you want to skip for machineguns
personal score meta not necessarily means meta for winning games, this isnt pvp afterall, which would mean not everyone will suffer from such builds and there is no point complaining about someone being not having 3 mg squads. Someone playing sniper + ing + mortair wont really notice machineguns due to range preferences. This topic is about p2w issues afterall.
