(Survey) BR5 Soviet Automatic Rifle Choice

And also if you pretend to be somebody who cares about historical accuracy try to read about history sources for a while

And yes, I still waiting for even one document from you

The burden of proof lies with the one who asserts, not with the one who denies.

Memoirs are not documents, they can be biased, distorted, just misremembered.

I’m still waiting for a single documented evidence of AVS/AVT issue to troops post 1943.

Until then, they were not.

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You don’t trust veterans of Great Patriotic war. Who are you to speak with? :clown_face:

I trust evidence.

Just because my grandpa said he used AK-47 in 1941, doesn’t mean he’s right.

So, any factual evidence to prove your claim?

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Multiple sources from very different places of Eastern front and Soviet-japanese front - is a quite decent source. You show nothing - just Only a casual attitude towards history as a science and a lack of knowledge

I wait for a links to documents - where all of it writen. Not a funny forum guys suggestions, not gpt. A links. To a Docs.

So, we are waiting for real documents about it:

I would assume you don’t consider Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons to be a funny forum guy?

He seems to agree with me, though, that AVS-36 saw use mostly in the Winter War and that AVT-40 production was stopped in mid-1943.

I wonder which historians or weapon experts support your claim that those weapons were used in late WW2, in Berlin maybe?

I`m waiting for a documents you mentioned. Still no any of

Or maybe you think Ruslan Chumak is a funny guy?

Weirdly enough he also agrees with me:
https://military.wikireading.ru/38633

In total, 65,800 AVSs were produced until 1940. Simonov continuously improved the design of the AVS, but… More modern models of self-loading rifles had already appeared, which were simple in design and easy to manufacture. In 1940, the AVS-36 was discontinued, freeing up production capacity for the new Tokarev SVT rifle. The AVS-36 was not just a failure; it was doomed to failure.

And for some reason still no historian agrees with you? How strange :thinking:

Where it was written?

Ask Ruslan Chumak and Ian McCollum.

Unless you know better than them or have other experts who support your fantasy about AVS and AVT in Berlin lol

Its not. Just your dreams. Unless you found some proof - but still no any evidence - directly were is written:
AVS 36 was withdrawn from service in 1940 due to reliability issues.


Proven Stalingrad picture photo
Memories
AVS was used in many battles even at Soviet-Japanese war as I mentioned
So you have no right to told somebody something like it

If you dont know - just dont write and we all be fine here

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Well my friend, I have two weapon experts supporting my concept (the truth).

And you still don’t have a single reputable source or evidence confirming late war use of AVT/AVS :smiling_face_with_tear:

Again Ruslan Chumak:
https://military.wikireading.ru/38632

The decision to manufacture the SVT in an automatic version (AVT) finally undermined the authority of the self-loading rifle. The rifle’s receiver is not designed to withstand powerful cyclic loads; it simply deformed when firing in bursts - hence the bursts of cartridges and insufficient closing of the bolt. Apparently, the troops abused the automatic fire mode, which in the service manual for the AVT is called “an auxiliary type of fire, conducted when there is a shortage of light machine guns and in exceptional moments of combat…”

Makes sense why no one would give this to soldiers after it was cancelled in mid 1943, right?

You have nothing. Chumak and Ian dont say AVS never ever use in a middle and a late of WWII. I show some decent evidence it was. And nobody told that it was produced. But in a 15 millions army it was in some not much count before 2 september 1945 which is proven in some history magazines and in a memories

And yet no proven:
AVS 36 was withdrawn from service in 1940 due to reliability issues.

Which means - Decommissioned in the army - its not - it was during all the World war II in Red Army. Most of it was lost in a 1941-1942 battles but small amount survive in some places - its a 15 millions army! I give you a memories there was an evidence of it. Nobody tells it was a millions. But 1000 maybe even 100 in 1945 could be. there is some sources told us it was


Straight question - is the photo a fake?

posting hitlers and stalins orders to recall this or that is a bureaucratic paper trail in a world war. How many of those orders get ignored, or missing?

I get what the papers say - the soldiers also disupte those claims, and photos are presented as evidence. Aka clearly rare but nevertheless visual and biographical information about their use is here - were looking at it.

Интервью с ветераном ВОВ Васильев Алексей Александрович - Другие войска | Я помню No evidence this man have a problems with a names - he perfectly remember all places they were during Soviet assault in Manchuria. So I cant see a point to accuse his memory about AVS he speak about as well

No one is talking about “never ever”.

Something can always happen once or even twice. It’s war, chaos and survival - you fight with what you have.

Mad Jack Churchill reportedly went to combat with bow and sword in WW2.

Point is:

  1. AVS-36 was replaced by SVT-38/40 following Winter War. It was no longer issued to troops.
  2. AVT-40 production was cancelled in mid 1943, it was dangerous to fire. It was no longer issued to troops.
  3. The Red Army used the 10 rounds magazine for AVT. Any other variations (15/20) were experimental and never adopted by GAU for mass production.

And again questinable - I bring before evidence of its existence of some amounts during World War II. It was at the balance of Red Army anyway at the almost all fronts unless it was all destroyed all broken all thrown away. But some small count survive - thats that we are talking about