Stop the weapons duplication: Remove Fedorov and MKB-42 from the moscow campaign

[_fi_nal]

I think the weapons duplication between campaigns is getting quite wild. Are all the top campaign levels supposed to be functionally the same in terms of weapons? If yes, what’s even the point of having all these campaigns?

With bringing Fedorov and particularly MKB into the moscow campaign (though Fedorov in Berlin is even more silly) I think the devs have jumped the shark.

So even though it will be unpopular and not done by the devs anyway, I’d propose that fedorov and mkb42 be removed from the campaign (at least as further unlocks / orders) and be replaced with avt-40 and MKB/35 respectively.

[Blogaugis]

I agree with removal or making restricted/premium weapons.
As for replacements…
Hm…
What are avt-40s and MKB/35s?

[CaptainSebekel]

@_fi_nal

avt-40

Built in spring 1942

@_fi_nal

Fedorov

Historical more or less accurate. More accurate than the AVT.

@_fi_nal

duplication

But duplicating the AVT is fine?

@_fi_nal

MKB/35

Gold order, downgrade and überproto which makes the Mkb looks historical.

[Vaughn_Brute]

@_fi_nal

So even though it will be unpopular

I hope it’s not unpopular. I hate the those kinds of additions to the Moscow campaign. Adding fully automatic rifles like that really took away from what made Moscow fun and unique in my opinion

[Vaughn_Brute]

@_fi_nal

avt-40

I don’t think this started showing up on the battlefields though until summer time of 1942, if I remember correctly

[_fi_nal]

Built in spring 1942

That’s fine, let’s use the AKT-40 instead then. Should be from 40 onwards, 10 round mag (better for balance) and also is technically in the same campaign already.

Historical more or less accurate.

Lol, ok sure.

Gold order, downgrade and überproto which makes the Mkb looks historical.

Got the problem you’re having there buddy.

We can use the mkb35/ii with higher ROF if that makes you feel better. Überproto is better than “didn’t exist, let me pull it out of my future ass and make all the campaigns the same”-level proto.

[Winter_Storm]

@_fi_nal

That’s fine, let’s use the AKT-40 instead then. Should be from 40 onwards, 10 round mag (better for balance) and also is technically in the same campaign alread

they won’t do that because it’s a premium squad and they love their money makers

[Zyklop_Garmata]

Fedorov in Moscow is more historically accurate, unlike in the Berlin.

[CaptainSebekel]

@_fi_nal

Lol, ok sure.

Soviets basically emptied their entire depots when the Germans pushed them during 1941 and 42. Including using outdated guns which lied around (which is why we have the Madsen, old PPDs and the Dragoon and the Avtom and the AVS).

@_fi_nal

That’s fine, let’s use the AKT-40 instead then. Should be from 40 onwards, 10 round mag (better for balance) and also is technically in the same campaign already.

Already premium.

@_fi_nal

Got the problem you’re having there buddy.

Ah, the good old illogical and non-historical stat magic.

@_fi_nal

Überproto is better than “didn’t exist,

There are other possibilites.

[Conscript_Joe]

You want to remove the mkb PARTICULARLY, I see because it’s not historical.

Fine.

But then we would also need to:

• remove jumbo from Normandy.
• remove m2 carbine from Normandy.
• remove many mg34 patronenwatchacallit from many campaigns.
• remove Fedov from Berlin.
• remove first unlocked pz3 from Moscow.
• remove many fg42s (that wouldn’t be so bad)
• remove A13 from Tunisia.
• remove almost all axis planes from Normandy…
• … and also (especially) from Berlin.

Etc. I probably forget a lot.

So you dislike the mean mkb42h, sure. But removing it would also require rebalancing in Moscow: such as get rid of beretta 20 ammo. Give axis suomi smgs, or captured ppsh41. Remove avs from Moscow because axis has no sf rifle. Also give axis usable (but immobile) 88s to nuke t34, because it’s what happened afterall, you know, historical.

Etc.

I understand. You don’t like the rifle. Thankfully it’s a rather rare sight, only present in sweat lords stacks.

[Bigote0070]

In fact, no
the fedorov was only used in Winter War

[Bigote0070]

The mkb42 in moscow is there for a reason, and its VERY VERY IMPORTANT

this to be a free transfer rifle to stalingrad
many weapons are locked in stalingrad, so unlocking them and transferring them to other campaigns gives you the possibility to use them for free, i know it’s not historical but it’s a way to enjoy stalingrad for free

[Conscript_Joe]

I was going to say
“It’s to give axis at least ONE thing interesting and really good except the Kiraly”

But that’s also quite a valid reason.

[Lolnoodles]

If the progression lines aren’t drastically reworked with other campaign additions (medics, light vehicles, weapon side grades), then going the route that Stalingrad started with captured weaponry like the MP 717(r) would be a good start since both the USSR and Germany captured large amounts of weapons between themselves but would effectively add duplicates within the tree in the name of balance/historical accuracy that might be offputting to some people.

It just requires that they move the 72 round submachine guns up while filling in their spots with lower capacity weapons to reduce the speed of powercreep with the addition of moving the rarer weapons from the tree that precede them and prevent anything “lesser” than them from being added as a non-premium into the gold order roster (AVS-36 in relation to the SVT-40, MKb 42 (W) with scope mount/MKb 42 (W) in relation to any semi-automatic sniper rifle/future submachine gun, etc).

This is what I came up with in sticking to the current format of the campaign trees:

Level	Class	USSR	GER
Level 1	Rifleman I	Mosin M1938	Gewehr 33/40
Level 2	Assaulter I	PPD-34/38 (box) [25 round magazine; 920 rpm; 7.62×25mm Tokarev]	M712 Schnellfeurer (20 round magazine; 900-1000 rpm; 7.63x25mm Mauser)
Level 5	Weapon	TOZ-B	MP-34 (ö)
Level 6	Radio Operator I	Karabinek wz. 1929	Gewehr 242(f) (MAS-36)
Level 10	Gunner I	Madsen (25 round magazine; 500 rpm; 7.62x54mmR)	Leichte MG 116(f) - (FM 24/29 [25 round magazine; 450 rpm; 7.5x54mm French])
Level 11	Weapon	MP-40 (captured)	MP-40
Level 13	Weapon	Browning wz. 1928	ZB-26
Level 16	Weapon	Sniper SVT-38	Sniper Gewehr 41 (W)
Level 21	Engineer II	SVT-38	Gewehr 41 (W)
Level 24	Sniper II	Sniper SVT-40	Selbstlade-Zielfernrohrgewehr 260(r) (Sniper SVT-40)
Level 26	Assaulter II	PPD-34/38	ZK-383 (40 rd)
Level 27	Weapon	SVT-40	Selbstladegewehr 259/2(r) (SVT-40)
Level 30	Weapon	PPD-40	Maschinenpistole 715(r) (PPD-40)
Level 35	Weapon	DT-29	MG-34 Patronentrommel
Level 38	Assaulter III	PPSh-41	Maschinenpistole 717(r) (PPSh-41)

Changes:
Mosin M1907 replaced by the Mosin M1938 [moved from Level 10] (Level 1)

MP-28 replaced by the M712 Schnellfeuer (20 round magazine) (Level 2)

MP-38 replaced by the MP-34 (ö) to lessen redundancy (Level 5)

Mosin M1938 moved to Level 1 and replaced by the Karabinek wz. 1929;

Pre-war Kar98k replaced by the Gewehr 242(f) to lessen redundancy (Level 6)

MG-13 replaced by the Leiche MG 116(f) and moved to gold order weaponry (Level 10)

PPD-34/38 replaced by a captured MP-40 (USSR) and moved to Level 26 (Level 11)

Winchester M1985 replaced by the Browning wz. 1929 and moved to gold order weaponry (Level 13)

Pre-war Kar98k replaced by the Sniper Gewehr 41 (W) to lessen redundancy and to provide balance against the SVT-38; This shouldn’t have been a premium weapon (Level 16)

Level 21 kept the same

Gewehr 98 with scope mount replaced by the Selbstlade-Zielfernrohrgewehr 260(r) to provide balance against the Sniper SVT-40 (Level 24)

MP-35/I replaced by the ZK-383 (40 rounds) and moved to gold order weaponry (Level 26)

Radio Operator II replaced by a weapon unlock; AVS-36 replaced by the SVT-40 and moved to gold order weaponry; ZH-29 replaced by the Selbstladegewehr 259/2(r) and moved to gold order weaponry (Level 27)

Assaulter III replaced by a weapon unlock; PPSh-41 replaced by the PPD-40; Beretta 38 (20 round magazine) replaced by the Maschinenpistole 715(r) for balance and as Italians were not present* at the Battle of Moscow (Level 30)

Level 31 completely reworked to something else; Sniper AVS-36 and MKb 42 (W) with scope mount both moved to gold order weaponry

Kiraly 39M replaced by MG-34 Patronentrommel as Hungarians were not present* at the Battle of Moscow (Level 35)

Assaulter IV replaced by Assaulter III; Fedorov Avtomat and MKb 42 (W) replaced by PPSh-41/Maschinenpistole 717(r); both moved to gold order weaponry

[_fi_nal]

You want to remove the mkb PARTICULARLY, I see because it’s not historical.

No. I actually want it removed PARTICULARLY because of the fact that the endgame between campaigns is getting too similar in weaponry and the duplication is lame. There’s currently a stg44 variant in 4/6 campaigns spanning 1941-45 and from timeline perspective i guess we should expect it in Tunisia as well.

Secondarily because it’s not historical, same as fedorov.

If you want to do a bigger push to fix all ahistorical shit in the game, feel free to do so. But i don’t need to make that argument so i wont.

For instance, if someone else wants to make a proposal about removing fedorov in berlin they are free to do so. I’ll try to focus on more narrowly defined and theoretically achievable goals (“change 2 levels”) rather than things which are sinply too big (“change everything”) to be done.

[_fi_nal]

@CaptainSebekel

Soviets basically emptied their entire depots when the Germans pushed them during 1941 and 42. Including using outdated guns which lied around (which is why we have the Madsen, old PPDs and the Dragoon and the Avtom and the AVS).

You’re too late: the fedorovs were already pulled out of stocks for the winter war and mainly consumed there.

@CaptainSebekel

Already premium.

Doesn’t matter to me. Might matter to darkflow, but a weak argument nonetheless.

@CaptainSebekel

Ah, the good old illogical and non-historical stat magic.

No, rather your focus on the personal downgrade aspect. I’m not advocating deleting anything from the inventory of people who have already unlocked something, by the way. As that would never fly anyway.

@CaptainSebekel

There are other possibilites.

Feel free to suggest, I’m not arguing that the replacements are the only possibilities.

[VoyoMayPL]

@Conscript_Joe

ONE thing interesting

I wouldn’t say adding another StG variant (there are like 4 in the game) into the campaign that shouldn’t have it, is interesting. It’s more like… lazy copy paste without any thougt.

[Jack_US]

Ok

Lets remove and replace with something more interesting all you listed except axis planes

[GeneralBrus]

Moscow MKB is trash anyways, too slow firerate and damage to be of any use.

[Upolaf]

Moscow is the last campaign I’m maxing out.

I know some people like this campaign but I honnestly think it’s just because they start with this one a long time ago. For me it’s one of the worst campaign with Stalingrad.

It’s worst campaign in therm of power creep.
It’s the worst campaign with AP mines spam.
It’s the worst integration oftanks or plane in a campaign. (Probably not plane anymore because now Pacific is worst).