Return of FF to Counter bigger HE: Discussion

Suggestions
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With HE Artillery, Cannons, Bombs and rockets getting bigger and bigger, I thought it might be a good time to talk about an old mechanic that USED to be in Enlisted. Friendly Fire.

We all know how much of an explosion fest Enlisted can be a great deal of the time. my ears are constantly ringing and the screen shaking…

I also believe its only a matter of time until Tanks and planes can choose their own loadouts, and we all know payloads can be much bigger.

There is no discouragement from spamming HE currently, only the reward of big scores.

I realise it’s a touchy subject as there is a distinct split in the player base on if this is good or not….One crowd doesn’t want ANY possibility to get grieved by their own teammates, intentionally or otherwise…

While that is fair is a fair reason, its only a learning curve (and an obvious one)…As with all games with Friendly fire, Including Enlisted in the past…Players DO adapt…They “MUST”.

……whether its because they get negative XP, Kicked or reflection damage, It only needs to go badly once or twice before even the dullest get the message…. play appropriately, or self-inflict serious consequences. Players are given all the info needed on their screen at all times where friendlys are.

Ofcourse there are always Muppets that do it for a thrill, But they could still do that now via flamer throwers, Barbed wire and molotovs. I ask you, how often do you see this happening in games?

So my Suggestion for Discussion is on one variation of the FF ruleset:

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This is one possible variation:

  • Friendly fire on All HE (grenades, launchers, cannons, bombs, rockets, artillery)
  • No friendly fire from infantry weapons, AT rifles.
  • No Friendly fire on Mines
  • Cannot damage Friendly Vehicles/Tanks/Planes with anything except Bombs (to avoid intentionally killing to take spot)

NOTE: Keep in mind you can see at all times where your team mates are through the mini map and HUD…there is no excuse for sending a bad round/bomb…you had the infomation to make an informed choice

Friendly Fire Penalty

These penalties already exist in the game from when they were previously used. You lose more for FF damage than you get for an enemy kill.

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Reflection Damage

If you do a certain amount of damage to friendlies, You will be suicided and locked out of using that squad type for a certain period. (lockout like kamikaze plane)

Kicked from match

If you kill a certain number of friendlies you will be booted from the game and desertion penalty.

Pros of “FF”

  • Removes ability for teams to advance and secure, Using friendly HE SPAM as a Shield
  • Bigger Bombs rockets and cannons are much riskier to use and cant just be thrown about flippantly
  • Value of Smoke Artillery Goes Up for contesting a point.
  • Value of Small ordance goes up
  • Artillery and Bomb Spam becomes a double edged sword for area denial.
  • Fighting on the objective becomes more about the Infantry than HE area denial.

Cons of “FF”

  • accidents can happen (one bad mistake can see you booted)
  • Griefers can Happen (but will be kicked out swiftly)
  • Players that dont know what they are doing can hold up your team with bad artillery placement (a bit like engineers make bad fortifications)

I always liked this when it was a part of the Enlsited base game and can see its worth if re-implemented today

…For those of us that remember, this was back when Bombs were far more lethal than they are now with a much larger radius and nothing to stop them. Pilots were much more deliberate in their CAS strikes

I think its worth discussing again:

7 Likes
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A way how to ban/kick majority of vehicle players.

I don’t like idea of friendly fire in a casual game such as Enlisted.

Plus instead of worrying just about enemy HEs, now you would have to worry about HEs from your teammates. Which you can’t literally counter in any meaningful way.

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I mean if they are willingly going to ignore the Big Blue Dorito above their allies head in their crosshair…thats a them problem.

You are welcome to your opinion OfCourse, but I don’t subscribe to casual being a reason. Far more casual games like Hell Divers 2 subscribe to Full Friendly fire. Heroes and Generals was every bit as casual as enlisted and also had friendly fire (unless I am remembering wrong)

Also Enlisted Started with Full Friendly fire on bombs, Pilots used to be alot more deliberate in their bombing.

you could make other alterations, even warthunder has FF. I haven’t even mentioned “full” friendly fire.

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almost all casual games have disabled FF for a reason. hell divers 2 is not good example of counter argument cause hell divers 2 is coop where communication is possible and encouraged(and you can revive your teammates). idk about H&G.

also griefers could just go into friendly arty to get killed and player who made arty call on space without friendly players would get penalized/kicked.

if you enabled HE friendly fire, vehicles would become useless as soon as CQC has begun cause they would get fraction of kills.

personally i would like HE friendly fire, but it would require both teams to be coordinated with communication and marking.

2 Likes
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It worked in the past so I guess there goes that.

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Well you “can” communicate, but its pretty rare with randoms. communication is mostly done through spotting. Also its not a revive, its a respawn, it costs your teams respawns.

Personally i use HE on the reinforcements coming from respawn. by habbit from playing lots of sims

Got an idea to combat that? Maybe if radius is empty on placement they get a pass?

7

They should bring back FF for explosives, starting with artillery as it is not fun with the fact that team artillery allows team members to capture/ defend the CP while the enemy cannot even reach the outskirts without getting killed or hurt. Not to mention tanks HE spamming CPs.
It existed in the past and the only reason why it got removed at least for artillery was that they called it a “bug” and the number of team kills was acceptable.

1 Like
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This is not true. Tanks and planes were useful back then where they could teamkill, people just had to be a bit more aware.

The only reason why planes back then had so many team kills was that 250kg were nukes that could wipe out a Jumbo frontally from 500m away.

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I remember those kill feeds lol.

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10

I agree that FF from HE is needed but I don’t agree with proposed implementation.

There is no need for FF to actually do any damage or kill friendlies, just detect hits and apply point penalty/kick.

3 Likes
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Just point penalty or reflection damage?

Sounds reasonable…still has the desired effect

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12

Yes. Point penalty negatively affects only the person who does FF. But things like killing negatively affect the whole match.

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13

Thats good feedback :+1:

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well then they should widen the area where you could place arty. now grey zone blocks it just so you can fire it on cap or directly behind cap on most maps.

what happens with bomber run? it basically blocks half playable area with one call.

i agree with this. that is one of the reasons why i want friendly fire. but then i remember skill of average enlisted player and stupid arty placements they currently do and get realization that it is stupid idea.

well i didnt play with friendly fire on, so i dont know the situation then. overall i just get feeling that it would suck for vehicle players.

before any implementation in the game i would like to see how the game would look like in customs.

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Also to expand, ppl who receive too much FF should get a penalty too.
But this should be like 2x less sensitive than dealing FF (maybe even more).

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Needs a tweak/rework anyway…maybe being able to cancel it would be a good option

I think this is reasonable. Should have been part of the rocket artillery from the start IMO. Thats where the tanks you want to hit are

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Well, you won’t increase their skill if you keep the bar low and dont demand anything.

The player base became so skillless because the game demands so little from you now, it feels like a bad parody of boomer’s talk.

Like, I do not want a “walking sim” or such but stuff like auto spam or explosive spam would not exist otherwise.

1 Like
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Whether its true or not, this is what i blame. The bar has been set so low and it shows. Having some learning curve is not a bad thing. Players get there

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It worked so well that it was removed…

Okay, lol. Seems like legit argument.

Yeah, you just want to deliberately nerf vehicles and make them annoying to play.

I don’t want to overthink every single shot.

Not to mention with planes I don’t often even see at what I am shooting/dropping bombs. I mostly drop bombs according to vehicle marks or my prediction where infantry could potentially be.

It would make vehicles so much more annoying to play.

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Are you saying that everything that was removed/added on request was a good idea? (I know you dont)

Nope…i play vehicles alot. I play them in warthunder aswell…i think about where my bombs/shells are going.

You can see where your team mates blue doritos are a long time before you drop…infact this is how you decide where to drop for maximum damage.