Of course, this has been talked about many times and everyone’s gonna have to wait for the devs to do something about it. But ultimately I’m just going to look forward to the games future.
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You know it’s weird but I think I know what you mean. It really does seem like players or the AI almost never cover each other. But I think that’s more something that’s the fault of the AI and Player’s behavior rather than something in the core of the game itself. At least that’s what I’m initially thinking but I’m not too sure honestly. Just some food for thought there
Yeah I actually really do like the pacing of the gameplay at the moment. I think it’s pretty good, at least it is for what this game is trying to do. But I don’t think that this game will devolve into players just camping far back from the OBJ as you stated. I say this bc this is an objective based game. In order to win, you do need to be on the objective or else you’ll lose. And from my experience, players do tend to rush the obj to defend or attack it. So no I don’t think it will devolve into just back map camping.
Instead, I think we’ll see players start to set up more defensive positions on the actual objective itself. Since camping behind the obj in this game honestly doesn’t really benefit you at all unless you’re a sniper.
one theory of mine is that bots lull everyone into a false sense of security, looking like they have one direction covered when they actually sit there watching you die.
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Actually tho, to counter camping and even OBJ camping. I think the use of smoke grenades and the use of ACTUAL cover needs to be encouraged a lot more. Since smoke grenades actually tend to be somewhat useful in this game when it comes to attacking an objective. Or at least they are in my experience.
You know, when I was first jumping into this game I would’ve heavily disagreed there. But after playing for a while, I’ve seen this type of thing happen too many times xD so that’s entirely possible!
remove killcam or make it unit specific …same goes for the pinging system make it unit specific
I think pinging is fine imo
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Imo there’s room for both in Enlisted but they are very dependant on your opponents. If they are constantly counter capturing points, then it’s a terrible idea to camp. But if they are not doing very good at the objective, then you only need 2 or 3 players capping zones. The rest can focus on making sure the 1 or 2 players among opponents who are indeed trying to play objective don’t get the chance to do so while also earning some kills for themselves. The kill cam in this case is a terrible addition. It has been a huge help when I do play aggressive and someone is trying to camp but it goes both ways.
The problem that I face right now is, some players can’t differentiate between either. I’ve had games in which first 3 players in my team scored 50+ kills against the opposition leaderboard with highest kills below 30 and still lost the match.
Tbh I enjoy both styles of gameplay. If my team is doing a good job at playing the objective, then I start searching for creatives ways to get kills. Again, in Enlisted, I see the room for both. It is why you have different class of soldiers. Also, Enlisted punishes you if you are not good at camping. A bot could simply snipe you. Camping in Enlisted is not as easy as doing the same in other games. I like this aspect of the game.
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The pinging system needs to be made more reliable before it should be touched imo.
But that’s another thread.
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I think the killcam should stay. The killcam only hurts snipers (the playstyle, not the class in this game), and those who want to find a hidy hole and just snipe at people without being shot back are rarely on the objective. It’s taking the objectives that wins matches in this game, not just picking people off with impunity.
Same thing on the warthunder forums: it seems the only folks all butt-hurt about the killcam are those who want to just find some crevice where they can gank people without being found and killed in return. Screw that.
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Well, the case for War Thunder and Enlisted is very very different as these games have very different mechanics when it comes to the troops on the ground. In Warthunder, you’re just in a single tank or plane and you do not have other units to switch to in the middle of gameplay. So it makes more sense for there to be this type of killcam there.
But in Enlisted, you can literally just switch to another unit in a split second and know the EXACT location of whoever killed you. This is just purely immersion-breaking and it leads to some really just weird gameplay. Where both you and the player you just killed just keep coming back to that same spot with your next unit in order to kill you. Like they know EXACTLY where you are and EXACTLY where to look for you. So there’s no intensity to be like “Oh shit I just got killed here, where do I think he is? I should approach with caution when I’m trying to find him”. Instead, it’s more like “Ah damn he got me, well that’s exactly where he is so lemme switch to this other unit and go get revenge”. The kill is essentially just handed to you and it just makes it feel like a game of table tennis or some shit. Or like a battle of attrition to see who can finish off who before your squad runs out.
Edit: But to be fair, after thinking about it a bit more, this feeling of it being like a game of table tennis may just be a factor that comes with in game mechanics like the ones Enlisted has. Since obviously, you’re going to switch to your other soldier in order to come back and kill the other guy who killed you. But this exact location kill cam just further exemplifies this feeling as you know exactly where that person is that just killed you, and all you gotta do is hit the metaphorical ping pong ball right back at them and hope you score.
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I actually would keep the kill cam as it is. I think it helps to make the soldier swapping element work.
I look at it like once you encounter another squad, it’s a personal battle between you and that player, so rather than the old 1v1 situation you have a kinda of mini battle between you and the other human and whoever loses their last soldier at the end of it has lost.
I really like sniping myself, but i usually do it whilst moving between flags. The idea of standing off somewhere, popping people off is fun and rewarding. However, for other players that are playing the objectives it’s just damn annoying to get randomly shot, out of nowhere, or at a distance you can’t fight back from effeciently.
In other first person shooters, you would be back at the spawn screen, in this one, you now have the chance to eliminate that sniper with another solider that is carrying a weapon capable of engaging the target. Both players know where each other are, the sniper already has the advantage of having dropped you, for you to then spawn in and have a soldier who is probably facing the wrong and needing to reload lol
That battle then begins, and maybe the sniper wipes you or maybe you kill him and he grabs another soldier and kills you and that personal battle begins. What isn’t happening in this situation is downtime, and respwaning and running back all the crap that isn’t fun. No one can complain if they had 5 chances and got wiped, everyone had the same information.
So in my experience, if the sniper is good, you’ll switch onto downed teamamtes each time and if he isn’t or you’ve positioned your other soldiers out the way then you have a chance to remove this blockage and continue on your path.
At first when i got invited, I didn’t even realise you could switch soldiers lol
When I realised that function existed, i thought oh, how bloody awesome, this will help the flow of gameplay and fun of gameplay.
I didn’t like the kill cam when i set up an mg nest at the top of the monestry defending invasion and started moping up half the enemy team then like 10’s after came under sniper fire and died. No I wanted to sit up there, and have so much fun watching the bright colour of the kill info popping up red crosses everywhere.
It was so fun, but I’m sure for the guys on the ground attacking once was enough to make it annoying and if there was no kill cam, and yes i get there are tracers coming off the gun but with so much going on and instantly getting turned to jelly without a kill cam im sure i could have sat there for quite a while wiping squad after squad.
But then is the game fun? it’s fun for me, sure. But for everyone else, that’s not fun. For me, why I’ve been enjoying this game is because it’s fun.
Back in the day, companies made games to be fun. There are so many games out there that are not fun because gameplay mechanics are introduced to keep things “realistic”.
Yes, you want realism for immersion, but most of these arguments about realism really just take the fun and flow of gameplay out.
I don’t feel this game is “realistic” I don’t actually want it to be “realistic” I want it to be fun, which it is.
If I want more realistic, I’d go play hell let loose or post scriptum.
I was really a big battlefield fan, really wanted to like bfv but I just didn’t enjoy it. The last ww2 game i enjoyed was world at war cod. Before that it was like old single player cods and medal of honors. Those games were really enjoyable and this is the first ww2 game I’ve played since then that captures that feeling of more fun that frustration.
So I feel that the kill cam is integral to the way the game plays regarding the squad member shifiting, the flow of the battles and the overall fun of the game and would not like to see the kill cam removed or tweaked.
Honestly, if you die to someone who got a shot on you, you deserve to be at a disadvantage. YOU failed to spot HIM, not the other way around. In my opinion, a realistic game should not hand-hold you into doing the spotting for you. Swap soldiers and immediately dash for cover, then try to determine where he shot you from by hand.
Which is not an advantage as you just got his position for free? You only lost 1 out of 7 soldiers, 6 of which being operated by AI which currently are kinda lackluster and act mostly as respawns, so dropping 1 of those AIs does nothing (sure you kill the player but since the player can swap, you do not actually drop the player).
That’s not what we are complaining about. We are complainging about not getting rewarded for catching someone out in the open. Getting shot from an unknown direction but determining that direction while your squad slowly gets wiped out 1 by 1, then countering that sniper, is much more rewarding than “oh, i died. Ok, he is over there, let’s get him!”
Snipers inheretly have a couple of disatvantages:
They use bolt action rifles, meaning that they are unable to dish out high DPS when caught out at close distances
They can only take out 1 player every second, when all shots land on upper torso (vitality perk aside), so it requires skill to be consistent with it
They do not get to see nearly as much action as CQC squads, as they put themselves in charge of a sightline and must wait for enemies to come to them, instead of actively seaking out combat, leading to lower XP rate etc.
And then, even when they see an enemy squad, that squad can easily counter them just because the game shows where the sniper is hidden? Moving erratically is already making it hard enough for the sniper to hit you, you really don’t need this hand-holding to defeat them.
The only killcam I would keep is the one of the last dying soldier, aka if the player dies with no available AI squad respawns left.
Yet in war thunder, you do not get a killcam for the shots taking out 1-2 crewman, which is the case here. You are not dead. You still have respawns in the form of your squad. Why would you get hand-held to get revenge kills even though you are not yet dead?
Sniping is always a legitimate support style. In Normandy, it was one of the most important roles to furfill when landing on the D-Day beach:
Taking out MG nests.
Sure, you can take out the gunner behind the MG with relative ease, but taking the nest out entirely was hard. It required immense precision. You had to hit the machine gun from long enough range or from akward enough angles to not get shot back.
This is just my opinion mate, I’m putting it here for feedback to the dev team. I’m not here to debate who’s opinion is right.
As I’ve said I play lots of games where there is no “hand holding” as you put it.
I also don’t see it as hand holding but as part of how the game plays.
Have a nice day.
Killcam is absolutely needs to be in the game.
The first - you have to know who spamming at you and this is about the main idea - you can revenge at campers and all other toxic players cause you have more then one unit.
The second - you always want to know who’s kills you.
Third - we need to have a bird flying seen of map from time to time to have more teamplay
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Define “toxic players”
MG nest users?
They fire tracers - no need for killcam
Mortars?
Cant directly revenge and they are loud, so easy to locate - no need for killcam
Arty radio?
Can be called from across the map - no need for killcam
That is why the killfeed exists
why not just make it so that only your last death has killcam?
You still get to know the position of the sniper, but you do not get to directly counter it with cheap revenge kills, yet if you are good enough and know the map well enough you can potentially counter them through skill (locating them by ear/sight and shoot them) before they wipe your squad. Campers are still forced to relocate or risk getting hunted by someone who just saw their position after their squad got wiped.
It would provide a fair balance between having killcam for every death, and having none at all.
Unrelated to killcams. You use the minimap for that.
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Cats, I know you like to dissect my posts. And I don’t want to explain myself. It’s my opinion. But OK.
The first. Toxic players jumping, streifing, waiting for you to heal and then kills you with knife. There is a lot of ways you can be toxic. And mg nests in a very closed position is also drives you mad ether like prefiring and automatic mortar fire. You always want to know there exactly guy is.
Second. I need to see me killed exactly from there. I learn positions and need to know for sure there is a best position.
Third. Newbies (you care much then anybody here) will be completely disoriented by fire of pro players using pixel fire from closed hide outs. Killcam helps them a lot.
At last - this is a game about action not camping. While you fast changes your position Killcam is not a problem anymore
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But wouldnt a killcam only for squad wipes still provide this?
And I care for newbies having a fair chance. They can learn spots from videos or guides. They can take experience from simar games as well. I only require newbies, if they are skilled, to have a fair chance against veterans with equal skill.
With the movement speed nerfs compared to closed alpha, you can’t reposition between individual soldier kills.
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There’s gameplay, and there’s realism, and they don’t always coincide. Since this is a game, gameplay often trumps realism, but it should still be at least considered.
From the realism angle, it’s not that you know exactly from whence the bullet came that killed you. It’s actually your buddy who knows it, and you’re just controlling all of your buddies when you take over control of them because you aren’t really playing in a squad of 7 real humans. Your buddy heard the shot, roughly from which direction, and might even have seen a muzzle flash or a bit of dust being kicked up by it or whatever. In real life there are exceedingly few times in war where a single individual will deliberately attack a squad of 7 men and expect to kill them all. That this happens in this game is a pure gameism. We aren’t all a bunch of Carlos Hathcocks here, regardless how highly we estimate our mad skillz.
As a gameism, I’ve played many dozens of matches by now (I’m at like level 15.95 - should have lvl 16 in one or two matches). It’s not as if the very next guy in a squad turns around and blasts a sniper. Btw, when I refer to sniper here, I’m referring to any lone wolf type player stuck in a crevice somewhere shooting at people at intermediate to long range, covering some kill zone. I’m not talking about the sniper class. Personally I tend to snipe using the Panzerbuechse much more often than I do with the actual sniper rifle for various reasons. Has it happened that the very next guy in a squad hits me? Yes, I suppose it has. But that’s not the typical response. The typical response is that I get at least 2 or 3 guys down before the first meaningful response. And if I’m not just sitting there exposed like a dope the whole time, I often will deal with the guy before he manages to deal with me.
When I get squad-wiped it’s almost always a guy from like 10 feet away with a SMG or LMG who has caught me from a direction I wasn’t looking and manages to wipe my squad before I can switch and deal with him. And I try switching as fast as possible. It does take a second or so to make the switch and in that time more often than not my squad has already been destroyed.
I just don’t see the killcam as being a problem.
In real war many thousands of rounds are fired, on average, for every enemy soldier killed. It’s not just that everyone sucks at shooting, either. Part of it is tactics. A real squad, if they took enemy fire, would immediately respond with massive return fire to achieve fire superiority. Almost all of these rounds wouldn’t hit anyone, and aren’t even intended to, particularly if they don’t actually know exactly where it came from, but merely its direction. This has a massive suppressive effect, and is known as suppressive fire. If suppressive fire can force the enemy to duck one fire team of the squad can then assault (typically by going around enough to flank) while the other fire team continues to lay down suppressive fire. The side that achieves fire superiority has much more freedom of action than the side that doesn’t, because they can force the enemy to duck behind cover and be more or less pinned down while the side that achieved fire superiority has freedom to maneuver (if there aren’t other enemy teams within sight that can then return the favor and pin them down).
This meme where everyone in a video game is Carlos Hathcock and runs around delivering killshots at hundreds of meters distance with every time to they pull the trigger is horrendously unrealistic already. Everything else here is just a gameism, and since we’re playing a game, that’s excuseable. Just as in Warthunder, I have no problem with the killcams. We’re in games where a few individuals control the actions of what in the real world would be many, many people, who would have a much better idea in real life where they are being shot from (particularly if it’s from a tank). The killcams fill in some of the gaps.
If we want to make a game that’s more realistic, then they need to integrate suppression, and design game mechanics that allow real life battle drills to be effective. Arguing against the killcam on the grounds of realism is just micturating into the wind. And even just on gameplay terms, I just don’t think it’s as bad as it’s being argued here in getting sniper types killed. If the sniper really does get killed, it’s because he stayed exposed too long, not because of the killcam.
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