Remove Dispersion, Better Weapon Models, Map Design

Recently returned to Enlisted again, played a lot more, and decided to compile my honest feedback:

I have played a great many shooters in my life, some were good, some were bad. I am extremely good at Enlisted, consistently do very well, have an extremely high win rate. I’ll try not to make comparisons to War Thunder here as perhaps it isn’t fair to DF to be compared to the failures of Gaijin, but I will have to make comparisons to shooters.

Dispersion

Let’s start off by talking about dispersion. I abhor the very concept of dispersion in a shooter, it is a terrible and atrocious mechanic. It is also RARE in shooters, at least noticeable dispersion. It is not a good method for balancing firearms, it just makes them silly, unrealistic, and frustratingly RNG.

I cannot tell you the number of times that I have lined up a shot on someone who is stationary, using a semi-automatic rifle, aimed directly at his face, only to watch my bullet fly off 1 foot to the left or right and miss entirely. This isn’t fun. This isn’t a good feeling. This is a terrible feeling.

I remember loving the MG42 and other similar MGs back when they didn’t have dispersion, they were fantastic, albeit a little too strong in CQC. Then you added dispersion, and now I genuinely despise using MGs.

Dispersion isn’t how you make things balanced, it’s a terrible bandage on a problem that could be solved in a thousand different and better ways. If you have ever played any other shooter in your life, you can probably come up with several. Better recoil simulation? Restricting the MG42 from aiming while standing/moving? Post Scriptum’s MG42 was actually quite difficult to use from the hip, because it had a lot of recoil. This is faaaaaar more preferable to just replacing the barrel with an overcooked noodle.

Another question, Why does mounting your weapon (using bipod) increase your dispersion? That makes 0 sense, I would have expected it to be a bug but it still hasn’t been fixed after years. I imagine many people don’t even know this, or haven’t noticed it, but yes, mounting your firearm increases dispersion drastically, it is actually better to stand and aim, than to prone and mount. If this isn’t a bug, it is an incredibly moronic design choice that should be corrected immediately.

Ignoring real life, because even pistols have less dispersion at 50m IRL than our M1 Garand does in Enlisted, so it is obviously hilariously unrealistic. The Semi-autos are already arbitrarily nerfed in the form of damage, M1 Garand 30-06 magically doing less than Springfield 30-06, so why does there need to be dispersion added on to that?

It is ultimately a silly and terrible design choice, use literally any other tool to balance your weapons, NOT dispersion. I have never seen a dispersion mechanic in a game that I enjoyed.

Next topic:

Better Weapon Models

I recently played a game called ‘Easy Red 2’, which is a rather small and obscure game, but it is effectively Enlisted, without the grind. I previously used to look at weapon models/animations from games like Battlefield V and gave Enlisted the excuse of “Well BFV is a triple A game, so they have far better funding and resources, Enlisted can’t do that.”

But since playing Easy Red 2, I noticed that it has the best model/reload animations I’ve ever seen in a game. Ever. Their reload animations are better than even Battlefield’s, with an insane amount of detail.

Have a look for yourself:

After seeing this, I was instantly embarrassed for Enlisted, because frankly our weapon models look like absolute garbage comparatively, and our animations are janky. Clearly it is well within the realm of possibilities to have weapons/recoil/animations that actually look good without spending AAA money, so why not put in the effort and do that? Game would be a lot more popular if you put in the extra effort.

Map Design

The final issue with Enlisted, is just one of map design. Defending is faaaaaaaar worse than being on offense, much easier to attack objectives than to defend them. Why? Because of the grey zone. The attackers being able to basically go wherever they want, behind the objective, and shoot at people coming out of their spawn, is exceptionally strong. Meanwhile the defenders are confined to a 5x5 square box that if they leave for 3 seconds, they instantly lose, with cap times of objectives varying wildly from map to map for some odd reason.

Some maps, like a few of the pacific maps, have MASSIVE areas where attackers can go. In many cases they can even put rally points Behind the defender’s spawn points. Which is insane to me, meanwhile the defenders are still confined to a tiny play area.

Thus why tanks camping in the grey are annoying. Because defenders physically cannot reach them. My recommendation to fix these issues is simply to expand the playable area, and increase the size of the objectives, while increasing the time it takes to capture them.

Look at any other shooter of this similar genre, from battlefield, to easy red, to every game inbetween. The maps are large. Not post scriptum, squad, or HLL large (which is too large imo), but they are very big, and give you the freedom to go where you want.

Just because you make defenders confined to tiny areas, doesn’t mean you are encouraging them to play the objective, because even now people just camp wherever they want and don’t do the objective. So making the maps larger will not make this a worse problem. It will remain the same issue.

Final closing suggestions

Fix the Lunge mine, it has been broken and useless for far too long now.

Remove carrier takeoff from Japanese aircraft and the corsair because it’s terrible and does nothing but make American air power far better by default due to merged aircraft not needing to.

Nerf AP mine capacity, make it so only engineers can carry AP/AT mines (or something they can build, like a mini minefield), because the sheer constant spam of AP mines is obnoxious. I had a Berlin match (I still won) where every single death I endured was because of AP mines. Literally stepped on 6 in a row at one point, on the entrance of a bunker (no other way in), and I cannot even see them because they are beneath rubble and bodies.

Give the Type 99 LMG its scope, because atm it is worthless. Far harder to control than the Type 96, far worse sights, and just generally not worth ever using.

Increase speed of the toggle-lock bolt animation on weapons that have it. In real life, using a toggle lock bolt won’t blind you, because the toggle is far faster than the eye can reasonably perceive. It will not cause you any issues of visibility until it locks open (when you can’t shoot anyway).

MAKE THE GUNNER ON THE SD.KFZ 251 HALFTRACK ACTUALLY USE THE GUNSHIELD PLEASE.

Reduce the obnoxious overheat speed on the MG42/34 emplacements and Halftrack MG, because it should not be overheating after 5 bullets. I’d rather have to reload after 250 rounds (fortress belt) than deal with this awful overheat mechanic.

PUT DOWN THE WINDSHIELD ARMOR PLATE ON THE M3 HALF TRACK PLEASE.

And make the M2 .50 cal on the M3 actually do .50 cal damage. Genuinely ridiculous how it can take 2 or even 3+ shots to kill an enemy with a .50 caliber round. Especially considering all it takes is a single panzerfaust (or AT rifle) (or a dude shooting through your dumb open windshield with an SMG) to wipe out your entire vehicle.

25 Likes

Great ideas, i agree alot with the dispersion part especially, in my opinion a game should not punish you with RNG spread, making you not hit the enemy if your aim is on point and you are simply playing better than the enemy. The excessive AP mine spam is also just out of control and it needs to be limite to certain classes.

3 Likes

I agree with dispersion 100%. They should instead focus on adding recoil similar to how it would react in real life if someone were to hip fire an mg42.

8 Likes

This is my main gripe with Enlisted. I looks cheap! Tbf that probably have more weapons than any other ww2 game but the models and animations are sooooo bad!

1 Like

This is the best suggestion in a long long time, Amen.

It won’t.
mounting doesn’t affect dispersion.

I have painstakingly tested this in practice.

Left was from a standing position, firing one shot every second using the Type 97 scoped LMG.
Right was from a prone position, MOUNTED, firing one shot every second using the Type 97 scoped LMG. All shots were aimed at center mass of the target.

5 Likes

because than you would have a sniper mg, also in real life most MGS were not used by a single soldier but a team of two or more soldiers, so sure eliminate recoil but force a second soldier to carry the tripod and ammo, and i would like to see any soldier firing many of the MG is the game at the hip, its called balance, also in real life you would only have one MG per 100 soldiers, so no three MG in a squad of seven

image

I replicated your results.
Left off hand standing took 5 single shots while holding breath
Right mounted standing took 5 single shots while holding breath

image
Same methodology only prone this time.
Left off hand
Right mounted

This is so dumb, they need to fix it

2 Likes

Dispersion is the laziest way to balance gunplay thats why.
Devs dont like hard work.

7 Likes

Yes it does, i’ve also tested it myself, its clearly visible.

Thats a very weak arguement, if the devs dont like to work hard, then they just shouldnt be devs in the first place.

This kind of test is not accurate
just enter the sandbox and use the console to turn on the dispersion cone and compare the coverage of the two pose.

Test thoroughly with various weapons
Consistent results

CoMpUtEr SaYs nO, ur wrong.

Yeah no, forgive me if I don’t believe your dispersion cone when I can see the results myself through playing and testing in the game. Clearly the dispersion cone is incorrect, or irrelevant, when the results are clear. I have actively seen mounted weapons become less accurate, I have made the conscious decision to never mount because of how inaccurate weapons become. This isn’t some spooky conspiracy I’ve pulled out of my a**.

It’s very real, and if your lovely dispersion cone can’t detect the problem, then maybe that is why it has gone unfixed for years now.

2 Likes

And it is so easy to test yourself, just go into practice and look at your guns tracers when shooting mounted and without mounting the gun somewhere.

2 Likes

What, there are easier ways like recoil. Arma gives you real life handling and instead of giving fake gun dispersion, they imitate body sway/arms swaying the gun; specifically, when you are out of stamina this is much more apparent as this is how people in real-life handle guns when they are exhausted.

You know these WW II guns were much more accurate, especially the bolt actions and they seem to have excessive dispersion as well.

The easiest solution to get rid of fake dispersion is to increase recoil to real-life levels and also introduce arm swaying/body swaying. Wherever your gun is pointing is where your bullet should be heading and they can easily add arm sway to get rid of this horrible bullet dispersion.

2 Likes

This game already has shock from being suppressed by explosions and heavy-caliber ammunition whizzing past your ear drums. Arma imitates this pretty well, you can be suppressed heavily even from small-arms fire.

I believe they should enhance the Shock trauma from rounds whizzing past specifically from small-arms and heavy caliber rounds. They already have some arm swaying from this shock mechanic, they should double down on this instead of relying on dispersion.

At the moment, the current gun dispersion makes it feel like every gun’s barrel is warped.

Yes thats what we want, reward players for skill by making the bullets actually go where you aim. The arm swaying and all that can also perfectly be introduced with the “Shot spread after quick turning” skill, simply reducing the sway if you want to invest into that.

On the real life-recoil part i’d just like to add that we should get rid of the totaly unreal recoil system of Enlisted, where your gun stays in the upwards positon of the recoil after shooting instead of coming back down again. This is especilly bad for semi-auto rifles that have extreme recoil already like the AKT, SVT, Gewehr 43 etc. it just forces you to pull down and reaquire the target/squad after firing and thats just not fun to play in heated situations when the AI or the squadleader already made out your location.

2 Likes

Giving guns like the MP-40, PPSh-41, and blish Thompson’s realistic recoil would be a terrible idea, they’d practically become sniper rifles, The StG-44 would become the best assault rifle since 7.92×33mm Kurz is much weaker than 7.62×41mm and doesn’t even cycle the gun faster than 510 RPM at most.

The FG-42 II would have 5x less recoil while the AVT-40 gains more since the one in game uses the simplified muzzle brake.

Realistic recoil would also be extremely hard to implement for guns like the MG-42 since the gun has very little muzzle rise and mainly just pushes straight back.

I could go on and on, realistic recoil would cause a huge imbalance, in real life recoil isnt a problem for most guns, vibration is. When firing full auto on guns, vibrations cause your barrel to be pointing in a slightly different spot each time a bullet leaves the muzzle, on easily controllable submachine guns like the PPSh-41 you can easily put someone in your sights at 100 meters and magdump 71 rounds into them and due to the vibrations, you may only hit them 30-40 times even though your sights remained on target.

Standard German TOE was one MG per ten man squad. USA had at least a BAR per squad.