Possible solution for automatic rifles problem (2 different player bases)

Suggestions
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Hi guys. First of all, sorry for my grammar mistakes and bla bla. English is not my native language. Maybe Im mispronouncing something.

So whats the exact problem?
Well, we have 2 different big player bases in this game. Normaly this game got advertisied as realistic/historical game. Later Enlisted got “popular” but also got mainly promoted to the “CoD, BF etc” community (Twitch, YouTube etc). Now the historical players want some changes with the automatic rifles, since its not very historical with a big amount of FG 42´s, M2 etc. Of course the arcade players dont want this change.
Generally speaking: DF fucked up with their advertising and now we have “arcade vs realistic gamers” situation.

Many people I know love the game right now with this dynamic (just look in Normandy at the kill feed, most of the time only automatic rifles ;)). Most of them (including me) only playing Normandy. I played (100 hrs+) 98-99% only Normandy xD By the way, here is survey (started 1 day ago) by the Enlisted youtuber Quadro:

normandyforthewin

Source: Quadro - YouTube.

It seems that many people enjoy the dynamic right now. Of course, Normandy is also one of the popular WW2 scenes. But they tick Normandy, because its their favourit campaign ingame.

Which cases could arise? (in my opinion!)
Well, DF could just do it and limit automatic weapons and make the game in general more historic/realistic. But many people wouldnt like that. They would leave the game. Right now many of the historical fan people say that these arcade people should play CoD or BF. If they would do that the Enlisted player base would be a lot smaller and of course Gaijin/DF would lose a lot of money.

The exactly same would happen if you switch the case. If DF dont do anything about that. The player who want historical gameplay would leave. The game would lose many players and Gaijin/DF would lose a lot of money.

My suggestion: 2 different gamemodes
Since the game is in beta, there is nothing wrong with testing something like this:

Arcade mode for our arcade players: The game right now. More based on arcade than historic. Of course the main weapons would still be the automatic rifles. Later, if larger maps appear, the use of semi-auto and bolt action weapons may increase. Because long range lol.

Realistic mode for our historic fan player base: This game mode is said to contain the full package for historical correctness. This mode would include slower gameplay (in my opinion) because the main weapons are semi-auto or bolt actions rifles. Eventually this mode could be advertised as a kind of ranked game. You could add a war map like in H&G (yeah I know this game is a bad example, but I liked this war map). Maybe +25% XP if you play realistic mode. There are definitely other interesting ideas for this mode, we can certainly still collect some ideas.

What should one keep in mind with this idea?
Well, you are splitting the player base. But it would happen sooner or later anyway (-> the cases above). This is one of the suggestions were you can keep both playerbases. Both sides are happy. And you can get for both sides new players. And you can always choose what do you wanna play. Maybe some hardcore playing today? Lets go for Realistic. Nah, maybe more BRRRRRRRT today? Its arcade (or casual) time! XD
Since both parties are represented quite large, I do not believe that a game mode is no longer played.

That would be my suggestion to solve this problem for both sides. It might also solve problems in the future in advance. I think its worth it to give it a try.
Again, sorry for any grammatical errors. I definitely wanted to suggest this idea to you guys because it solves the problem with automatic weapons and other problems in general for both sides.

Have a good day guys!

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One of those gamemodes will end up like the lone fighters but if it would be cheap to do then why not.

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You meant to say - people who watch his channel like that dynamic. As a single youtube channel audience doesn’t represent even a fraction of games community.

And Pacific Campaign being most voted in another poll might indicate certain bias.

Would be nice to see proper stats from devs. Like I understand that Moscow might be less popular among CBT simply because it’s older one and they played already too much. In many conversation here on forum, it became clear that some people never even player Moscow as they are all into Normandy. So how would they know better?

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Well, the prerequisite, of course, is that DF make something decent out of it. The lone fighters mode is already pretty neglected imo.
My experience with the lone fighters mode was also not that good. Played as axis and I got so much spawn trapped when I attacked.

@73711 of course its just a single youtube channel. But Quadro is quite neutral on the matter in my opinion. He got popular because his news and tutorial videos about Enlisted.

Perhaps it would be advisable for DF to start such surveys.

EDIT: Well yeah, some players didnt even tried the other campaigns. I played a few matches also in the moscow campaign. In berlin I just played one match (waiting that DF unlocks the progress). And I didnt liked moscow campaign. Especially the maps. I dont know why.

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They’ve probably already lost those who wanted at least a semblance of historical accuracy. I guess I’m still here, but just barely. I’m mostly here to wait and see what happens next.

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Perhaps. The forum could be split too as there are a lot of mixed feedback provided very often. Like air problems are very “different” in Normandy and Moscow. While a lot of feedback is about Normandy.

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We dont know how big the groups are really. I suspect that both are in the very close 50/50 range. Simply because the game was massively promoted to the arcade group too.

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Devs know. Let’s see whether FG42 would appear in Berlin two weeks later. (And think of the player count of hell let loose)

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At the end it might end up like Red Orchestra 2/ Rising Storm vs Rising Storm 2. Many people where concerned with Rising Storm 2 being set in Vietnam because of large amount of automatic weapons. And their concerns where rightfully placed. RO2/RS being a really old game, is still played by 500 people daily (+ about a hundread playing various mods), while RS2 being a much never game, with bigger budget, more marketing and much better covered by YT has only 2 000 players left.
One can interpret this data differently but run & gun style of gameplay (which way less in RS2 than in COD/BF but way more than in RO2/RS) is something that people just get tired much faster.
CORRECTION: There is another 1 500 players who play RO2/RS outside of steam. Which is pretty amazing for something that cameout 10 years ago. That’s a much better player retention than what RS2 has.

In case of Enlisted, it would be a waste to build all this sim systems with how damage is modeled, proper stats of weapons and etc. to in the end turn it into BF like game. Because then you have to replace a lot of these systems with the same approach as DICE uses - curves, so each weapon can be balanced to exact DPS.

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RS2 vs RO2 is not a very good example, especially not in terms of the playerbase size. RO2 barely had more than 2000 people consistently playing during its prime. That number is largely the same for both games actually, except that RS2 didn’t see a massive drop. Personally I attribute that to RS2 being a much more advanced game from a technical and mechanical standpoint (gameplay, not visuals).

Even more importantly, this comparison doesn’t even apply to the historical accuracy side of things. There are appropriate limitation to the kind of weapons you can use in RS2. Also due to obvious reasons, full auto fire is not that prevalent in that game. Probably even less prevalent than in Enlisted.

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as i said before fix the maps so they not so close together so it dont favor cqc like call of duty plain and simple second you just want to divide the community more and more and quit limiting things that don’t matter because i have fought every thing!!!and only the planes are so op and game breaking that its ridiculous i mean you dont have to earn your way in to a plane that was so scarce compared to the allies but u guys only cherry pick certain things so u can stomp every one else boosted bolts and reduce m1 grands u get more catering done because you whine to the devs its not fair its not correct booo hoooo boooo hooooo limit the guns instaed of looking in to the problems why would poeple go to such lengths to put all fullatuos in squads at the fact they kno there going to be repeat sniped over and over again and still put them in its choice a play style its the person choice to choose what to take not yours because it unfair for you to tell me how to play or where to play i have to seperate mode beacuse you cant handle fullatuos

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Regarding numbers I disagree. Here is just steam data:
https://steamcharts.com/app/35450#All
this doesn’t cover people playing outside of steam

and then look at RS2:
https://steamcharts.com/app/418460#All
it flat-lined after release and stayed there. the last “insurgence” of returning players was when MEGA servers where active, few years ago. You can eve see how RO2/RS numbers are going up while RS2 going down because for many people Honey Moon was over and they came back to RO2.

There are hardly any, pretty much every class has access to fully automatic weapons, besides like snipers. Full auto is not that prelevant at distance, because we don’t even have the same distances here in Enlisted on many maps + RS2 has very heavy recoil on most weapons, which is still irrelevant in CQB.

Honestly, there where so many discussion about this in past that I don’t want to go by that path again.

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I agree with that. IMHO map sizes and cap zone sizes lead to many problems this game has. When comparing Normandy to Moscow it a very drastic difference in terms of map design and how overall smaller “active parts” of the map surface re-enforce this run & gun style of play.

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but i like the balance of both like enlisted has run and gun map but also an assault maps pretty balanced now

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Berlin and Moscow have both on the same map, Normandy - hardly.

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It’s the maps and objectives as wastedwoodsman said.

Have a mode where there’s only bolt actions on the same maps/objectives and I’ll gleefully run around knifing everyone to death.

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Exactly what they truely want is to remake this game to RO2 or hell let loose or something. This game has been objective oritented and centered on CQC(less than 50m) since CBT, no matter in which campaigin.

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I’m somewhere in the middle of liking historical vs. arcadey games and I am absolutely against giving automatic rifles to (nearly) every class. It’s not just a realism issue. It’s also a balancing issue. What’s the point of the Assaulter class and SMGs, if everyone else can get an automatic weapon with superior damage output and range? Yeah, okay, SMGs are more controllable, but that’s all.
And why oh why does it have to be the FG42 for the germans? The Stg44 would be a much better counterpart to the M2 in terms of gameplay and also far more historically accurate as a weapon for the regular infantry. It boggles the mind why they didn’t implement that one first.
In fact, the FG42 would have made an excellent weapon for a premium paratropper squad. That would’ve sold like hotcakes. Instead we get a paratropper squad with the G41. WTF is that?

Anyway, I’m against having another mode, just restrict the use of automatic rifles to appropriate classes. Which ones, that’s a different matter. In my opinion, only troopers. Gives you a reason to bring them to the battle instead of classes with additional capabilies.

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It’s kind of contradictory what you write. RO2 has different maps, yes there are some CQC maps. But Hell Let Loose is closer to Squad in terms of dynamics. RO2 is very arcady compared to it. But I think you meant RO2. In which case we should hardly see automatics. For 32 players on one side, you get 2 MGs, about 5-6 SMGs and 3 maybe 4 Assault Rifles, the rest is semis and bolt action. Which in total is less than 30% of soldiers on one side, and that is maximum, on some maps it’s even lower.

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I mean for all intents and purposes, that polls results don’t hold much weight for a few reasons.

  1. Berlin is in closed beta access, so many players don’t even have access to it.
  2. Of those that do have access, it has limited levels and many things aren’t available.
  3. Many players came over at the OBT launch and were given the options of Normandy or Moscow. Which one is more iconic? Without a doubt Normandy.
  4. Many players would go to Normandy due to it being iconic and that being the only campaign they play (due to how the progression system works and them not wanting to start from scratch) they vote Normandy.
  5. As previously mentioned, a lot of CBT and CAT testers got sick of Moscow after testing it for over 6 months. So they’re naturally more likely to pick something fresh thats only been around a few months.

All of these really go to throw off the poll results as to what the favorite campaign is. A more effective system would be to ask players what their main campaign is and then rate that campaign on a scale of 1-10.

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