Penetration problem with several german tanks

Suggestions
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In Enlisted Panzer IV (long gun variants) it can’t even penetrate T-70 or T-34 UFP at point blank for whatever reason? it should be about 135-140mm of penetration but in game it act nothing like that… in real or in War Thunder kwk40 or kwk38 pens much better and i don’t understand why this game doesn’t use it’s own publisher (Gaijin) formula from WT? doing quick math. 45mm * sqrt(2) = 63.64 mm of armor on the T-34
and im not talking about the trolly T-34 driver hatch that bounces shots even from Königstiger no just it is so weird in Enlisted… and there is also problem with Panther

image

armour of T-34 with angling

devs if you read this please make the PZ4s with the long guns a real and correct penetration value
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T-70

winterised-t701

Hull:

  • Front glacis ----- 35 mm (62°)
  • Driver’s port ----- 35 mm (33-71°)
  • Lower glacis ----- 45 mm (31°)

Turret:

  • Turret front ----- 35 mm (25°)
  • Gun mantlet ----- 50 mm (cylindrical)

Sides of turret

  • Sides ----- -35 mm (22-25°)
  • Joint areas ----- 35+15 mm (22-25°)

no need to talk about sides and rear armour and roof because it’s very weak to even anti-tank rifle

T-34 (40)

Soviet_T-34_tank_61

Hull:

  • Front Glacis ----- 45 mm (60°)
  • Lower Glacis ----- 45 mm (53°)
  • Driver’s Port ----- 45 mm (61°)
  • Machine Gun Port ----- 45 mm (28-77°)

Sides (Slope angle) of hull

  • Top Hull ----- 40 mm (40°)
  • Lower hull ----- 45 mm (0°)

Turret:

  • Turret front ----- 45 mm (8-81°)
  • Gun mantlet ----- 45 mm (3-74°)

rear armour of hull and turret around 40mm and roof 20mm

Sides of turret (Slope angle)

  • 45 mm (30-31°)

T-34E (STZ)

247324968_T-34Egorkyonstreet2.jpg.10fa7842a497b3a9d2fc6ceaa1de63a91

Hull:

  • Front Glacis ----- 45 + 15 mm (60°)
  • Lower Glacis ----- 45 + 15 mm (52-53°)
  • Joint plate ----- 100 mm (15-45°)
  • Driver’s Port ----- 75 mm (56°)
  • Machine Gun Port ----- 60 mm (1-73°)

Sides of hull (Slope angle)

  • Top Hull ----- 40 mm (38-39°)
  • Lower hull ----- 45 mm (0-2°)

Turret:

  • Turret front ----- 45 mm (4-75°)
  • Gun mantlet ----- 45 mm (14-58°)

Sides of turret (Slope angle)

  • 45 mm (28-30°)

rear armour of hull and turret around 40-45mm and roof 15-16mm
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now about battle of berlin T-34/85 vs Panzer IV ausf.J (i mean ausf. crap)

T-34-85 (D-5T)

45764781

Hull:

  • Front Glacis ----- 45 mm (60°)
  • Lower Glacis ----- 45 mm (60°)
  • Driver’s Port ----- 75 mm (60°)
  • Machine Gun Port ----- 65 mm (30°)

Sides of hull (Slope angle)

  • Top Hull ----- 45 mm (39-40°)
  • Lower hull ----- 45 mm

Turret:

  • Turret front ----- 90 mm (1-69°)
  • Gun mantlet ----- 90 + 40 mm (8-61°)

Sides of turret (Slope angle)

  • Front 2/3rd ----- 75 mm (19-22°)
  • Rear 1/3rd ----- 52 mm (13-19°)

Cupola

  • Front/Side/Rear ----- 90 mm

rear armour of hull and turret around 45-52mm and roof 20mm
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Now we take a look at 7.5 cm KwK 40/StuK 40 L/43 in stug 3 ausf. F, PZ IV F2, G (early) and L/48 in ausf. G (late), H and J

75mmkwk40L431

6546

penetration of KwK 40 L/48 as you can see it is more than enough to pierce T-34 easily

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PZ IV J main shell PzGr 39

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PZ IV G main shell PzGr 39

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PZ IV G vs T-70 ranged 100m

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PZ IV G vs T-34 (40) ranged 100m

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PZ IV G vs T-34E (STZ) ranged 100m

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PZ IV J vs T-34/85 (D-5T) ranged 100m

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PZ IV J vs T-34/85 (D-5T) even at such angle KwK40 will destroy it at 100m

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By the way there is also problem with Panther

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Panther in berlin also has some issues against T-34s sometimes i don’t understand how panther’s shell get bounce off the T-34s that round has around 194mm of pen vs 45mm slopped armour?..:man_shrugging: is it because panther is early unlock in berlin level 12?
Also the round doesn’t seem to have any explosive filler at all even though there is still 28g of tnt in it’s apcbc round which should do little bit more honestly still nearly 30g of tnt will kill the people inside T-34

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Panther can kill T-34/85 in almost any angle and long distance

panther is just so bad even in normandy it can’t pen UFP on jumbo in close range which of course it should actually so we need to shoot it to mg port

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“The Rheinmetall-Borsig KwK 42 (L/70) was the high-velocity gun planned and integrated in the Panther turret. It was a 75 mm (2.95 in) gun with 79 to 82 HE, APCBC-HE, and APCR rounds, often in low availability. Despite the moderate caliber, the large propellant charge and long barrel contributed to making this gun a very efficient armor-piercing weapon. The shell had even more penetrating power than the 88 mm (3.46 in) of the Tiger. Secondary armament comprised, typically, of one coaxial MG 34 machine gun and one hull MG 34, usually fired by the radio operator. The latter was, at first, operated through a “letter box” flap covering the vertical firing aperture. Later, on the late Ausf.A and on the Ausf.G, a more conventional ballmount was fitted, coupled with a K.Z.F.2 sight. Spent shells fell into a box, and the hatch covering it automatically closed while exhaust fumes were extracted outside via hoses. ”
[https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/germany/panzer-v_panther.php]

Untitled

penetration of KwK 42

Another example of issue with Panther is this lower turret front cheek (trap shot protection)

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that’s how it is in Enlisted it says 100mm thick

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that’s how it should be

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as you can see the armor in that trap shot spot is almost more than double so it is by no means a 100mm

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Picture references:

References:

I am trying to make the game better and more realistic as it should be so please be understanding

few things i have to say:

i have a feeling german 75mm guns kwk40 and panther’s kwk42 are all underpowered or something
and i believe the whole tank combat and penetration should be reworked because i think not only panther and pz4s have these issues , for example the aiming crosshair that shows penetration chances and where your shot will land is seem buggy when obstacles are in front of you
although there might be tiny difference in penetration between wiki and encyclopedia and war thunder still big thanks to War Thunder with their very accurate values for penetration and armour value :+1:

So when is the T34 finally getting fixed?

19 Likes
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I have definitely noticed with the Panther. Its honestly just not worth using at all.

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Easy solution:
Add Maus tank.

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same for me i even decided to buy jagdpanther to replace it before they get it fixed :sweat_smile:

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in your dreams joker :joy:

2 Likes
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Or this:

image
image1004×1000 136 KB

solve every problem at once.

4 Likes
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death star already got taken care of , how you want to add it xD

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IDK.
Just add it. we can add lore and reasoning later.

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if that gets added im quitting :joy: :joy:

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Germany suffers against soviet bias, add Leopard 1.
image

2 Likes
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they do trully suffer with that 75mm peanut shells

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na death star will bounce on superior stalinium drivers hatch.

5 Likes
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war thunder wiki dont have the same value as enlisted tanks

old war thunder engine in enlisted. Soviet and murican ammos bounce in strange situations

BR-471(is2) can pen a panter center mass in WT, but cant pen in enlisted

4 Likes
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paper thin armor, would still be somewhat “weak”

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yes and sounds too

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Hopefully after merge, their next big project will be to update engine to warthunders.

75 long is still nice, but at the combat ranges in enlisted, it should be 1 tapping t-34s as easily as t-34 1 tap panzers (as in just point and shoot)

3 Likes
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I agree the 75mm German canons are truly bad on this game (Panzer IV and Panther). The panther should have better pen than the tiger 1 and still, look like you are shooting with the already bugged panzer IV canon.

3 Likes
19

Also something people forget all the time is to think about why these vehicles have the properties they have.

Like the Panzer IV H having only 50mm of turret armor compared to its 80mm of frontal armor, or how the T34 85 only had its turret armor increased, its simply that these vehicles were already at their weight limits.

Its not like the soviets thought to themselves:

“Hey lets make a tank that has very strong turret armor, because when we drive through Berlin we dont need the chassis armor - the rubble, debris and destroyed tanks will function as cover.”

Instead they thought to themselves:

"the suspension of our tank can’t handle more armor, however since additional armor on the chassis wouldn’t matter anyways as 100mm of turret armor are already not ideal by 1944 standards, lets just make sure that our tanks are equipped with guns that can fight off German tanks.

The game considers the T34 85 turret armor as its “strong design point” instead of it being still not strong enough to make Panzer IVs take them out, and this is a problem.

2 Likes
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I agree, the German 75mm’s lack the ability to deal with T-34 with a hull shot, which is very odd. That and the T-34-85 is likely the best tank in the game with its one-shot potential and survivability.

3 Likes
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Soviets tanks are made from Stalinium, that’s why. Each plank was made by Stalin himself, using the powers of communism.

Now, i agreed on everything you said and devs should definitely see this and do something.
Nice to see that amount of sources and pics btw. I see you spend some time on this

5 Likes