than question to you why was the firefly constructed if a sherman can kill panthers and tigers mhm right because the us litteraly sacrificed 4 shermans for 1 tiger even the training manuel said that but yes a normal sherman has no problems to kill tiger or panther thast why they needed a 17 pounder gun in a sherman because they had nor problem
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Got lost in multiple threads dealing with same topic, will copy paste.
Pz4H is how better than Pz4J? Turret rotation speed, period. Nothing else.
Can we say the same for US tanks?
Logical upgrade would be:
Pz4J â Pz4H
M10 â M4
I would even replace Pz4J with Stug⌠but⌠again another topic.
Discussion for me ends here.
In the real life sense, you have to remember that unlike in game, you donât need to penetrate a tank frontally to be effective. Catching a German platoon on itâs flank, for example, combined with the shermanâs stabilizer, meant that shots to the side of german tanks were the norm, not coming up upon them frontally. Secondly, shermans were issued white phosphorous smoke shells, which were often used in opening barrages by 75mm sherman crews to blind and gas-out the crews of german tanks, forcing them to bail or choke on the smoke. Third, high explosive rounds were used heavily, causing casualties to tiger and panther crews through repeated spalling even if the armor would not be penetrated at the angle they were firing at, in addition high explosive rounds would be used to mobility-kill the tank, destroying the tracks and suspension. So ultimately, so long as shermans could get off the first shots, theyâd often be able to then flank and penetrate the side of the tiger or pantherâs armor.
Certainly, the 75mm wasnât great, but IRL the sherman could get by with it. Which is why even the 75mm sherman had a positive kill to destroyed ratio in tank-on-tank engagements across the board against the Germans. (it was also more than enough for Panzer 3âs and 4âs which were something like 90% of the tanks Shermans fought.)
As for game mechanics at the unrealistically close range and high situational awareness we get in video games, I recommend Spookstonâs âThe M3 is all you needâ series.
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Yeah, remember when I read how Germans counter attacked the Brits in Normandy with Panzer regiment equipped with Pz4H-s. They didnât get very far. And Brits mostly had regular Shermans.
If the same fight happened on Russian open steppes, balance would tip towards Pz4H, but over shorter ranges in Normandy ⌠king is who shoots first between these two.
Sherman M4 vs Pz4H = totally fair, M4 has better overall armor, maneuverability and MG while Pz4H has better TANK killing gun. I am too tiered to compare the TNT mass of HE shells of these guns, will do it tomorrow.
Killing infantry is also very important in this game, donât forget folks!
Thing we have now with this Jumbo ⌠not so much of a balance. Adding a Panther or Tiger on German side to balance the Jumbo will again lead to this.
If Darkflow is too stubborn to change their mind and admit they made a mistake and will add something to Germany to âbalanceâ the Jumbo, then we are in world of pain Iâm afraid.
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I disagree that adding a Panther on the German side to balance the jumbo would imbalance things excessively - especially something like the Panther D.
I specify the Panther D given that, not only can the panthers be penetrated by allied tanks on the side, but the D comes with an extremely slow turret drive, increasing itâs vulnerability to infantry. In addition, the HE rounds of the Panther would be less effective than any other 75mm tank in the game, which would further reduce itâs efficacy vs infantry. Thus I feel it would be as close as youâd get to an equivalent of the Jumbo in the game. Theyâre not exactly alike, but they could both take hits from each other, at least, with the panther being more effective against tanks, and the jumbo moreso vs infantry.
If darkflow isnât willing to remove the Jumbo, I think the Panther D would at least be a reasonable counterpart.
With that said, I do think the game would be better without the Jumbo or any big cats.
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I do think the Panther D is slightly better than the Jumbo, but if they add it I think the Allied equivalent would be the Firefly. Which would be pretty even with the Panther D in the roles they would serve (primarily anti tank with the ability to be used against infantry even though other tanks are much better for that) and I feel this would balance them out. Especially if the 75 mm guns get access to M61.
Yeah, forgot about this. But really not sure what then. If they add Panter, what will they then give to the US? I cant imagine that they will give something to one side and not do the same to the other. We are only digging a deeper hole 
Even then we have Pz4J and Pz4H. Turret rotation only real difference.
Agreed.
Well, like I said earlier in the thread, if they added the panther, itâd be only if they kept the jumbo, and then also only if they then moved the Jumbo up to be the Pantherâs contemporary, and gave the 4H a different contemporary instead, which Iâd recommend being the M4A1 76mm.
Because the Firefly has a long reload and bad HE - and this is still (so far) an infantry focused game.
Just bring back the panzerfaust like it was supposed to be in the first place. The Americans got the jumbo and the rocket launcher, while the Germs get a small rocket pistol that does no damage to the jumbo and barely anything on the sherman. The only way infantry can destroy a jumbo is by throwing a charge under it. What sense does that make?
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The Panzerfaust 30 (assuming its the Klein) still isnât going to pen the Jumbo frontally, or in its turret at all. The other model of the Panzerfaust 30 would pen it though.
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If the Allied teams are so good, then why are Allied mains always on here whining about German weapons? Surely they shouldnât have a problem with said weapons, if the German teams are as bad as you say? 
hand crank olympics
huehuehue
âşWhines about muh tribalism
âşBut duh aLlIeD mAiNs
Incredible
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And thereâs the problem with whatever point you are trying to make.
al;lied teams are no better or worse than axis ones - the main determinant of how good a team is is how many bots are in it!
Yeah the something olympics in here alright
I will really have to learn how to use these âOP this shajt OP that shajtâ baits in topic subject.
I make a Suggestive suggestion and no one gives u fuk, but someone writes OP shajt Dojchland and all hell lets loose⌠. 
__________________________________________________________________
âThe best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average Enlisted forum member.â - Winston Churchill, if he were alive today
I was showing how unreasonable some of you are being, and youâve only made my point more apparent. Thanks! 
You went from complaining about tribalism to being tribalistic yourself.
But whatever helps you cope
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no person with a brain would ever defend having a jumbo fight vs a Pz IV.
The only one flaming here is you.
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