New Campaign suggestion - Battle of France (1940)

Suggestions
44

The Battle of France would be, for me at least, seemed like a more balanced campaign over what we see in other campaigns, although there would be some caveats to this. This is because the weapons used by both the Germans and the French/British forces are similar enough.

And as such, this is what I imagined the weapons loadout would look like.
Your rifles would look like this:
Allied:
-Lebel 1886
-Berthier 1907/15 M16
-Berthier 190715 M34
-MAS-36
-RSC Mle.1918
-Meunier Rifle
(the Meunier or the RSC could be replaced by the Winchester Model 1907 semi-auto rifle, but it is less fitting. Both the Meunier and the RSC had no record of being used in WW2, as the RSC was soon turned to strictly straight-pull rifle and the Meunier being a prototype did not see full service.)

Axis:
-Gewehr 98
-Gewehr 98/30
-Karabiner 98K
-Vz 24
-ZH-29 (5 rounds version)
-Mondragon Rifle
(you can see that the two final semi autos for the Germans are chosen because the Germans did not have their own semi-auto rifles during the Battle of France. The ZH-29 has no record of being used by the Germans, but it is likely they would have used it in small quantities. The Mondragon was used by the Germans in WW1 and while there is a lack of evidence the Germans used it during WW2, there is a chance they would have used it as a reserve weapon.)

SMGs:
SMGs are not that common in the French and British armies, which causes a bit of an issue. The Germans, on the other hand, had a plethora of designs to choose from. The issue is balancing these SMG that while different, each would have their own strengths. And as such, the French/British armies would use a weird mixture of SMGs from all around the world.

Allied:
-Erma EMP
-MAS-38
-Thompson M1928 (30 rounds Stick Magazine)
-Thompson M1928 (50 rounds, mafia styled, drum magazine)

Germany:
-MP 34 (O)
-MP 38
-Beretta M1938
-Suomi Kp 31 (50 rounds box magazine)

If anyone has a better SMG list, just tell me, please. I need you!

Machine Guns:
Allied:
-Chaucat
-FM 24/29
-Lewis/Reibel

German:
-MG 13
-ZB 30
-MG 34

1 Like
45

I would replace the suomi with mp35

46

Then, we have the following.
Heavy Weapons:
This list also gives us a new type of weapon to the game: portable artillery. These are light infantry gun, that although has a small calibre, could be used to great effect if used properly.
Allied:
-Boys AT rifle
-Schilt Flamethrower
-Lance Grenades mle 37
-37mm mle 1916

German:
-Panzerbüsche 39
-Flammewerefer 35
-5 cm leichter Granatwerefer
-37mm infantriegeschütz M.15

1 Like
47

Well, the issue is simple: Thompson M1928. Could the MP 35 compete against this higher firing rate Thompson ?

48

More that with its low recould a suomi with 50 round would probably be completely broken
Edit: i dont have the mp35, but i hear very good things about it

49

Suomi kp in french campaing? Definetly something unexpected… but would be really cool, just add 3 different assault squads before level 20 and campaing is done

50

Then, finally, we have ourselves the vehicles.
Tanks:
This is kinda confusing by itself. The Germans and the Allies simply had completely different designs that would be difficult to balance. And as such, this is what I came up with

Allies:
-H.35
-H.39
-SOMUA S.35
-Char D2
-Char B1

German:
-Pz II C
-Pz 35/38 (t)
-Pz IIIE
-Pz IIIF
-StuG IIIA/B (capable of firing HEAT rounds)

Buildable guns:
Allies:
-47mm APX AT gun (while this thing offers higher penetration and larger calibre over the German PaK 36, this thing lacks a proper APHE)
-75mm Mle 1879/33
-Hotchkiss 25mm AA gun

German:
-37mm PaK 36
-7.5cm KF 16 nA
-20mm FlaK 30

Buildable MG:
Allies:
-Hotchkiss Mle 1914

German:
-MG 34 on a tripod

(both of these machine guns have their own strengths and weaknesses. The Hotchkiss will have a longer firing time, while the MG 34 will have a faster firing rate. Both these stationary MGs will have an infinite ammo like usual)

Planes:

Allies:
-D.371
-MS.406
-MB.152
-D.520

-Breguet Br.391
-Potez 631

German:
-He 51
-Bf 109 E-1
-He 112
-Bf 109 E-3

-Ju-87 R2
-Bf-110 C2

That’s it. I’m tired, and I’m off. Bye bye. If you want to change some weapons or vehicles, do so because we need to have an optimal experience ingame. No more painful fighting against the overpowered Thompson as the Italians, PPSh as the Germans, FG-42s as the allies, etc. Just no.

1 Like
51

The Suomi KP/31 is actually a heavily exported weapon, used a lot. The French used confiscated KP/31s from various sources (such as the Spanish Republicans) and used them in the Battle of France. I was thinking of giving the KP/31 to the French instead of the Germans, because there were records of the French using the KP/31 in the Battle of France. The Germans, on the other hand, had no records of using them in the Battle of France, but there were records of the SS using them later on.

Yet, you know the issue. ANOTHER PPSH THE GERMANS HAD TO FIGHT AGAINST. The difference is that the Germans don’t have something to counter it this time, like the FG 42. And we all know how the Beretta M38/42 performed against the Thompson in the Tunisian campaign.

And as such, while it is a matter of pure speculation, this is the best we can get in order to balance the SMG meta in the Battle of France. The French did use the Thompson both from their previous purchases and from the British, and because this is 1940, the M1 Thompson had not been made yet, and the 50 rounds Drum Mag seemed to see military service during those times.

However, the KP/31 would also be a fitting SMG for the French, because their rifles and MG would be inferior to the Germans’ own weapons.

And thus, you can see the footnote that I made when I wrote about my SMG ideas. It is confusing and just difficult to think about it. And we had to go into speculation, with absolutely no historical basis.

There seemed to be no records of the Germans using the Beretta and the Suomi during the Battle of France.

And you can see the issue. No one wants to face another PPSh while they have no equal SMG, which is an issue with Moscow. This lineup, even though most likely fictional, would basically give both sides their own PPSh, which seemed to be a good tradeoff. Yet, the issue is, again, no historical basis for this.

And thus, my only question is simple. Historical accuracy, or fun ?

1 Like
52

Bit offtopic but in my opinion people give too much credit to top tier weapons.

In moscow ppsh isnt even problematic, we rarely can outgun anyone in this game cause low ttk.

When axis start shooting me with mp40 or other axis smg, ppsh wont save me. Im dead before i can react

When soviet start shooting me with ppsh same happens. Mp40 wont save me

Who get first shot typically wins.

So actually it dosnt matter who gets BEST weapon in some category as long as other side get GOOD weapon too.

53

Exactly. The PPSh is anything but OP, and so is the FG-42. The issue is that the Soviets lacked something to counter the FG-42 (because the FG-42 can literally be carried by riflemen, which means that you can have an unlimited respawns with the FG, while you can respawn with your PPSh only once for every 3 respawns).

However, I gave the wrong example. The issue comes in Tunisia. The Thompson is absolutely broken in Tunisia, while the Breda we got there is a downgraded one. This leaves the Axis with no counter. This is the example I should give, not the PPSh example. Sorry.

And so, this is why I was thinking of giving the Germans in the Battle of France the Suomi, as the French had no other reasonable SMG but the Thompson or the Suomi. And the 1928 version too, with its powerful 800 rpm.

And this is the main issue with the Battle of France. You have nothing else for the Germans to counter the French Thompson M1928 but the speculative Suomi and Beretta. Even then, the Beretta doesn’t feel that good when facing against the Thompson.

And because you can’t give the Germans historical something to compensate for the French Thompson, well, what do ? This by itself would have made the French have an OP weapon the Germans have nothing to fight against, except their superior tanks.

This is not an issue in Berlin, Moscow and Normandy, because while the Soviets got the PPSh, the Germans got the FG-42 or the MkB 42. While the Americans have access to the fast firing Thompson or the BAR, you’ve got more FG-42s and StG.

Yet, the issue with France is, again, like in Tunisia. The Italians are at a disadvantage. You’re using the slower firing Beretta against the Thompson. Yes, the Beretta is good, but you are at a slight disadvantage when fighting against the Thompson. That monster. Yet, you have the Semovente, but how will it help you against the Grant ? Or what about the Breda 30 against the Vickers-Berthier ? The PzB 39 against the BOYS AT Rifle. The list goes on and on.

This is the issue I’ve had with Tunisia. As the Axis, you can’t but being always disadvantaged. It just feels that you enemy has better weapons over you. And this is what I don’t want the Battle of France to become an imbalanced mess. I don’t want my French squad to get wiped out by an MG-34 while he have no MG-34 counter of our own, or by a M1928 Thompson while playing as the Germans using MP-38s.

And it was because of this problem that made Tunisia so unfun for me. I wanted to play Italy because of the appeal of this new nation with new weapons, yet, get yeeted and deleted because of a balancing issue. Even with skills, if your enemy is just as skilled as you, whatcha do ? They have the better weapon, and will destroy you.

And so, whatcha think ? My hope is the the Battle of France will not become a second Tunisia. And hopefully never be. If you have any ideas, send them here.

54

But, when I think about this for a moment, I could see another balancing method, like the one you see in Berlin. So, I was thinking just give the Germans weaker SMGs, give the French the Suomi, and the Germans would get superior MGs all around. And as such, the Germans have weaker SMGs, but stronger MGs. That might work as a good balance factor.

55

if the other german stuff is good enough i dont think they will need a proepr SMG alternative
mg34 will easily outclass anything, the mg13 will probably be a decent alternative(comapred to the garbage french MGs look like they are)
their tanks would probably also be better (APHE against small tanks(garmans shooting french) vs solid shot against tanks wih a lot of space(french shooting germans)+ multiple MGs for infantry)
not sure about planes

56

I have to agree with your view. The Germans would have better MGs and tanks, while the French will have better SMGs and other heavy weapons. This creates a good dynamic, and an incentive to play the other nation.

I imagined the MG progression to look like this:
Chaucat–>M1922–>FM24/29–>Lewis

Breda 30–>ZB vz 26–>MG 13–>MG 34

As for SMGs
Erma EMP–>MAS 38–>Thompson 50 rounds–>Suomi KP/31

MP 28 with MP 18 magazine–>MP 34 with MP 18 Magazine–>MP 38/40–>Beretta M38 (the OG Beretta that you found in Berlin not the downgraded 38/42 ) with 40 rounds magazine

This feels satisfactory, as the Germans are superior in terms of MGs but inferior in terms of SMGs, just like in Moscow. The PPSh being the counter to the MG 34, and now, the Suomi being a counter to it.

57

You sure those two also came with Luger snail drum magwell?

58

Most likely. The two uses the same magazine as the MP 18, because all of them fired the same cartridge (9x19 Parabellum) and to cut costs because you’ve already been making MP-18s since 1918. The MP-28 is basically an improved MP-18, while the MP-34 is just a derivative.

59

Time to create a new list. After doing some research, I came to some more interesting machine guns for the French. And as such, it goes as follows
Chauchat mle 1915–>FM 24/29–> Hotchkiss mle 1922 (M34)–>Darne mle 1922

For the Germans, something like this
Madsen–>MG13–>MG08/15–> MG34

As you can see, this MG list is more revised, as we are adding in some WW1 weapons we have not seen before, including the water barreled WW1esque MG08/15, and the Hotchkiss mle 1922/34, which looks like a weapon from the previous war.
Next, we also have the Darne Mle 1922, which would have a really good firing rate on par with the MG-34, while having the ability to use a 50 rounds belt, instead of the 200 rounds belt.

The MG08/15 would have the 100 rounds belt, but at the cost of its reload time, and of course, its slowest firing rate out of all axis weapons, reaching a staggering 450 rpm, and no more than 500rpm even fully upgraded, slower than even the Breda. But, its 100 rounds magazine would give you an interesting choice between the MG34 or the MG08/15.

60

As for the Darne mle 1922, this is a good prototype weapon. Firing at around 800 rpm-1000rpm, which would be the best top tier LMG for any allied teams. Interesting indeed, as the allied teams are finally getting a properly powerful LMG/MMG.

61

As for the rifles, I was also thinking about unorthodox things. We will of course have the RSC 1917/18, but the Germans are in a bit of a tight spot here. We could always go back to the ZH-29, but I want to add in the Selbstlader 1906. Both should have 5 rounds magazine for balance reasons, or else, you’ll be using a 5 rounds magazine rifle vs a 10 rounds one, which is not comparable to 6 vs 8 (Armaguerra vs Garand)

62

they were used by the SS, as they had to supply thier own weapons and ammo before 1942
and thus used ALOT of captured weapons

FG is OP due to the one hit ko and its availability and ppsh is op due to its large mag with high ROF means that they used to be able to just spam rounds at 70 meters and get kills untill the SMG’s were nerfed

2 Likes
63

Typically speaking, correct. However, the issue arises when most of the combat revolves mainly around rifles, where SMG tends to fill in a secondary role (Tunisia axis is a good example). As Tunisia axis gameplay tends to revolve around your Carcanos and Armaguerras instead of your Berettas or Bredas, you can see the issue that they are facing.

You are facing against Thompsons over Thompsons over Thompsons with your Beretta M1 or Carcanos. The Tunisia allies lineup do have some extremely solid C&C weapons, which includes the dreaded Thompsons or the BAR. The issue is the disparity between what the Axis and Allies have, and the true nature of Tunisian combat in Enlisted: starts from house to house, but not too far that SMGs can’t hit you, then end in house to house which SMGs with the highest firing rate could show their monsterly potential.

So, how will this translate to Battle of France ? Simple: both allies and axis Battle of France teams will have similar rifle-based combat, in which SMGs will be useful, but not a decisive weapon. Both teams will have a limited amount of SMGs that can be carried, each with limited potential.