We have BR 3 tanks that can fire 105mm/120mm shells every 8 seconds. These tanks produce far more shrapnel than the KV-2 and fire more frequently, allowing them to engage different targets at different opportunities.
The tech tree KV-2 doesn’t even a coax for the tank player to use in the mean time between reloads, meaning that between shots, there is a half-minute opportunity where anyone can do anything in front of the KV-2 with impunity.
I don’t understand why the devs would put this vehicle at BR 4 for reasons other than misattributing its memeability with its actual performance, or a gross overestimation of what a 152mm shell can do in a game that is cluttered with background objects and terrain that can absorb excess shrapnel and contain its effects in a small area.
You say that as if any other pak 40 tank like the Panzer 4 F2/J/G doesn’t share the same BR as the Marder 3H.
Using tank destroyers as a point of comparison makes no sense, especially in the state they are in right now, where they share the same BR as their turreted counterparts.
Artificially so, it survives Tiger II hits, there is something about its damage model that makes the crew more survivable, or post pen damage less severe, which means this could easily be changed so it can be used in BR3.
I mean the issue is more here, it is a great upgrade over the KV-1 with the ability to obliterate any tank it can face in the game. To powercreep the preceding tanks in favour of the KV-2 seems shortsighted at least.
Though I do have to say, my god the 152mm shell needs a massive buff, like a nigh 6 inch shell is terrifying and should be as much in game, rather than just a bit of a big HE shell.
But I think sadly to take most advantage of that you would have to add destructible environments to the game like on the Tunisia map in WT,
Or what I would imagine would be far more manageable by the already struggling dev team already is just have a set rule that any shell over 105mm generates extra strong fragments that can penetrate brick walls, and anything over 150mm can even punch through inner concrete walls, so in those bunkers where you have multiple rooms, 150mm+ shells would basically overpressure the bunker.
I find it funny people seem to insist on gauging the abilities of a tank on its ability to fight other tanks in an infantry game where the purpose of spawning a tank in the first place is to support the infantry actually taking or holding the objectives.
In spite of the examples I posted above, none of the large-caliber tanks will produce as much shrapnel as a short-barrel 75mm spamming high explosive every 2.4 seconds. Not even close.
The 152mm shell contains about 5.8kg of explosives.
A 50kg bomb, depending on which nation produced it, has 30-50% of its own weight in explosive mass. People oftentimes call them useless, but these “small” bombs carry more explosive than a single 152mm shell, and they’re dropped in groups.
We’re going back to
But hey, asking the devs to meet these gross expectations instead of facing the facts provided by the datamine values is about the same as asking for a substitution of the game’s reality.
The reputation of this tank has made any meaningful balance discussions a hopeful dream.
I dont even think many people here have any idea about what the KV2 was used for, why it was one of the small pieces that halted the German advance, but why in a broad sense it still was a failed vehicle.
Its “reputation” was that the Soviets had nothing up to this point to stop the German Panzer forces - and when it arrived together with KV1, Germany only had Panzer III J 5 cm tanks.
Also T34 had pretty much the same effective armor, at almost half of KV1’s weight, which is why it got completely replaced.
“historically speaking” it should be a BR1 tank - which would be ridiculously OP, but luckily we dont have to go down that road.
I dont see the slightest of problems it being BR3 tho. The reload speed is simply too terrible to be crazy effective, even if it can kill German super heavy tanks.
Not exactly the best place to discuss this since this thread is about the KV-2. Discussing HE mechanics as a whole is another can of worms.
After doing the math, all you need to know is that in terms of fragments/minute:
Rocket vehicles > Short-barrel 75mm howitzers > Sherman 75mm > Everything else
I’m not referring to its actual performance in real life. It was a shitbox through and through.
I’m talking about its appearances and reputation as a meme tank in WW2 games. It’s a tank that was most responsible for the “derp gun” meme back in the 2010s, and too many videos about it and the “really big cannon” that can “delete anything in existence.”
Its origins as a meme has made people forget why it was a meme in the first place- It’s a terrible tank with a singular gimmick that gives you a satisfying explosion if you were successful with it. If you aren’t, you just end up eaten alive.
Large calibre HE should be, would give a reason to use it over the appalling HE spammer vehicles like a certain Pz3 N. At least then you have a good balance of being able to clear buildings at the cost of having to wait an age to reload.
I mean you call it an Infantry game, but seem to miss the fact that to murder infantry you must maintain the armour advantage.
And I dont disagree, I have often made the point of calling for the Pz3 N to go up to BR3.
Yes a “small” bomb is still very powerful, but the key difference is that in game I can deliver a 50kg bomb to about the right postcode, while I can deliver a 152mm shell square on the nose of a soon to be real sour kraut.
On that last point, the Anti Concrete rounds would fit the KV-2 very well in this game if they could be correctly modelled.
It isn’t like with air combat that you’re pretty much guaranteed to meet enemy planes.
Tanks seeing other tanks is dependent on the design of the map, and it’s entirely possible to be put in a scenario where a tank can inflict casualties on the opposing team without ever being seen by that team’s tank, and some tanks completely forgo fighting enemy tanks entirely and just focus on inflicting as many infantry casualties as possible before being destroyed, like with flame and rocket vehicles.
When I refer to short-barrel 75mm vehicles, I mean all of the ones that can fire every 3s by default, 2.4s with the reload perk.
Refer back to the chart I posted on the original post as a point of comparison.
A Scott can generate up to 9525 fragments/minute
Any kwk 37 tank can generate up to 9050 fragments/minute
The P3N isn’t some outlier. It’s simply the “best option” out of many already good options. There’s still the P4 F1 and the E variants.
Undisturbed, these tanks can easily inflict mass casualty events, but given their relative fragility, it’s simply a matter of how long it takes for a team to respond to destroy them before they completely drain a team’s ticket count.
With that context in mind, the KV-2 is, and always has been, a joke.
Not just next to its fellow large-caliber brethren, but by tanks firing smaller shells 2 BRs below it.
It does not belong in BR 4.
i agree with that , it have strong canon but the reloading time is soo long i can make a quick lunch XD, but i want the kv1jokezis 6 on tier 3 too , why ? , because doesnt mater if the canon is upgraded its still a pea shooter against panther , tiger and king tigers , but the armor got upgraded , the armor is a little better but doesnt matter anyways because pz4 , marder 3 and marder 2 still can pen it
