Move KV-2 (1939) to BR 3

[robihr]

personally i consider all KV tanks BR 3.5 material. too good for BR3, too weak for BR4.

if they only faced other BR3 tanks, then both KV1 and KV2 are BR3 material. when you pair them against BR2, they become too good for BR3 compared to other BR3 tanks(similar to japan vs sherman). 50mm guns can be rather ineffective in killing KV and while they can kill them in one shot if they aim at weak point, it requires KV player to actually expose it while not under any angle. otherwise you need to aim at turret and can end up with multiple shots to turret and still not kill tank, while KV needs only one shot to obliterate any tank on BR2 and BR3.

so i would rather have them be UP on BR4 then OP on BR3.

[blu3eyessS91-psn]

Bum bum badabum

[Valkay]

Nah, BR2 tanks would struggle against its armour.
If we had no up/downtier than I would support this without a question, but bullying BR2 is gay.

[AquilaGao]

Thank you @Josephs_Piano @Myrm1don @Mortarion_Death @MR_87 @Bridge_of_sighs4-psn @GeneralBrus @iso_seppo123 !

@RanDagon is this enough support for this suggestion to be forwarded?

I think most people agree that it will be balanced becasue it has the armour of the KV-1 (L-11) and a questionable gun, as well as no usable commander’s hatch or MG.

[AquilaGao]

Questionable bullying tbh, 30 second reload with no ability to fight back other than the main gun literally means you can send out one bot, KV will have to shoot and then it is done for

[robihr]

@AquilaGao

is this enough support for this suggestion to be forwarded?

no

[Josephs_Piano]

@AchtColaAchtBier-psn

I believe there was a captured KV-2r
Germany should get one too for BR3, but if KV2 would move to BR3, the KV-2r would be stay for BR4 hahaha

According to the KV-2 page on Tank Encyclopedia an unknown number were captured, some were refitted with German cupola’s, and some were sent back to the front where they were found to be useful as artillery OP’s due to their height.

This is the one in the German tree in War Thunder

[Josephs_Piano]

@Dregomz

@Josephs_Piano

absolute nonsense - we get explosive packs at BR2.

and said packs do nothing as they can’t pen 75mm of the side armor

Why are you throwing them against sides instead of on top??

@Josephs_Piano

There is no need for every BR 2 weapon to be able to kill it - heck seeing them on the battlefield might even create a resurgence of AT mines!

while in reality it would just camp in the grayzone not being able to get killed by anyone but planes

and Marder III, Guerillas… and all the BR3 German long 75’s in the game - it won’t be facing only BR2, and there is absolutely no reason at all to compare it solely to equipment 1 BR lower that SHOULD find it tough, and then whine and cry when they do!

@Josephs_Piano

sure - but the short 50 CAN go through it - and it should be tough for a vehicle 1 BR lower - that is why the other vehicle is 1 BR lower!

just because it sometimes can doesn’t mean it’s reliable

I was thinking the short 50 Pz 3 was at BR 2 - but it is the long 50 - which is fine for BR2 opponents IMO - they wont’ be the only tanks available to a German team.

[Josephs_Piano]

You don’t need “support” to get it forwarded AFAIK - the dev’s look at each on it’s own merits.

[GeneralBrus]

@Valkay

Nah, BR2 tanks would struggle against its armour.
If we had no up/downtier than I would support this without a question, but bullying BR2 is gay.

Well it has the same armor as KV1 - but less overall power ( no mg, longer reload ), KV1 already one hit kill nukes every BR1 - BR3 tank… so a KV2 would be a weaker KV1 BUT in return has the ability to fight BR4 and BR5 vehicles.

I would argue a KV2 downtier to BR3 would follow the exact same logic as a STUG III F being lowered to BR2.

[robihr]

i would put KV1 on BR4 if it had power to fight all BR4 tanks. KV2 on other hand also has power to fight BR5 tanks.

[Jade_Stern]

Considering only the strength of the artillery and determining the BR of the tank is unbalanced. The 88mm Flak 37 Sfl. is far from the Tiger 1, and the armor of the KV-2 is completely useless in the BR4.
The only advantage gained from buying these two tanks is the AA and machine gun.
These two tanks can only function on the BR3: sacrificing armor or loading speed for powerful artillery.

Similar to the 88mm Flak 37 Sfl., there is also the Marder (H). As the BR3 has PZ.4 (H), no one will use it. It should be added to the German BR2 to compete with KV-1, just like KV-2 can compete with Tiger.

[robihr]

@Jade Stern

As the BR3 has PZ.4 (H), no one will use it.

this is not argument for any BR adjustment. i could say cause BR5 has KT(H), KT(P) should be moved to BR4 cause nobody will use it on BR5.

[Jade_Stern]

People don’t use it because it doesn’t have a turret and its armor is very poor.T-60 can easily destroy it, do you still think it should stay in BR3?The example of Tiger 2 (P) is completely irrelevant here, it is still very powerful.

[Valkay]

@AquilaGao

Questionable bullying tbh, 30 second reload with no ability to fight back other than the main gun literally means you can send out one bot, KV will have to shoot and then it is done for

IDK man, same could be said about the Japanese 120mm naval gun tank AKA chi-ha short to justify sending it down to BR2, do you want that thing to be BR2 because I sure as hell dont.

[Jade_Stern]

This is because its loading is not long enough and still poses a significant threat to infantry. But KV-2 is definitely not more suitable for dealing with infantry or Pz.4 than KV-1.

[S-G-44]

Maybe thats why is premium (just like the Yak with 45mm)

But could also be cuz:
-no turret
-open top
-bad movility
-bad armor

But in what world u Will see anyone playing with that thing ( no really i just saw a guy playing with it once and lets Say “Saw” cuz bro got killed at speed of the ligth)

[Jade_Stern]

Do you need me to tell you that similar balance methods already exist?
Dicker Max,No-Ni 1,Grant,They all have artillery that can easily penetrate higher BR tanks, but for some reasons, they remain at lower BR.

[S-G-44]

@Josephs_Piano

Pz3 J1, and the BR2 AT gun

Could work specially the GRB but the angles where it can perfectly pen are limited and mostly force You to flank

@Josephs_Piano

On most occasions you will have a year or more to back up before it shoots again.

True but only if it manages to miss it’s first shoot and if it fails it Will hide for a whole year lol

@Josephs_Piano

What does that mean?

im reffering that yes a long 50mm can pen Kv-1 and KV-2 armor but first of all the tank must be flanking then if we take in count the distances and angles (mostly angles since this game have short distances cuz small maps) and im not even considering the risk of infantery

but yea overall a 50mm can pen KV armor but once again the situation/luck must be precise

[robihr]

@Jade Stern

The example of Tiger 2 (P) is completely irrelevant here, it is still very powerful.

example of KT(P) is extremely relevant if your argument will be: “there is some other more OP tank on same BR and nobody will use this tank, so move it BR lower”.

@Jade Stern

People don’t use it because it doesn’t have a turret and its armor is very poor.

m10 and m18 also have paper thin armor and they are on BR3 and BR4. only comparison could be stug 3 A and stug 3 F/G which are on BR2 and BR3. i consider marder III H closer to stug 3 F/G cause while it has shit armor and is open top, it has better gun and has MG.

@Jade Stern

Do you need me to tell you that similar balance methods already exist?
Dicker Max,No-Ni 1,Grant,They all have artillery that can easily penetrate higher BR tanks, but for some reasons, they remain at lower BR.

idk about performance of dicker max and how it goes against other tanks considering it has HE only ammo. ho-ni 1 is ok, cause absolutely every japanese tank on low BR is trash cause they have low caliber gun with no MG. having one tank with higher caliber gun and no MG is ok. soviets and germany on other hand dont have that problem.
grant i wouldnt even mind going up one BR.