More Historical Based BR

Suggestions
1

I will start by saying that what I want is a semi-historical game. I don’t mind having rare, prototypes, and experimental stuff, but I at least want some levels of integrity.

With the upcoming Merge overhaul so far it seems the devs have leaned more towards “balance” than historical integrity. In the test server I have seen Volkssturmgewehrs in Tunisia, Italian paratroopers in Normandy, and various other messes. Personally this has soured me

For me it’s about maintaining an atmosphere, and seeing Volkssturm weapons in earlier battles or eventually British storming the beaches of Iwo Jima ruins that. Or seeing Panthers in North Africa. Or having Volkssturm squads in Normandy

I propose that BR be based on historical accuracy instead in order to maintain atmosphere.

I do not know the entire microscopic details of how BR is but I think it’s as follows, BR 1 and 2 is early game, BR 4 and 5 are late game, and BR 3 has a chance to appear in both. Instead it should be applied like this, explicit early war, explicit late war, and mid as things that were used all throughout

The game’s campaigns are as follows. The reason the Pacific has been excluded is because at the moment the campaign was designed to cover the whole war from beginning to end with no specific battles, and Japan was in a very special predicament throughout the war where it was using rather lack luster equipment all over the place.

  • Battle of Moscow, Sep 30 1941-Jan 7 1942
  • Battle of Stalingrad, Aug 23 1942-Feb 2 1943
  • Battle of Tunisia, Nov 17 1942-May 13 1943
  • Battle of Normandy, Jun 6 1944-Aug 30 1944
  • Battle of Berlin, Apr 16 1945-May 2 1945

My first point, somehow LOCK British stuff to Tunisia and Normandy, and Italy to Stalingrad and Tunisia. I don’t want to see Brits storming the beaches of Iwo Jima, I don’t want to see Italian Paratroopers dropping in to defend the beaches of Normandy or Reichstag.

Second make BR 5 only appear in Berlin. BR 5 should be the latest of war content. I don’t care if the Volkssturm guns are weak, they belong nowhere else but Berlin

A tangent idea I’ve thought of is making BR successive where BR 1 can go into BR 2 matches but 2 can’t go into 1, and so on and so fourth if you follow my line. I’m not entirely on this idea but what do you think

I am not going to list every single item (although I am tempted to do a total compilation) but I am going to list a handful from the Soviets and Germans so you get a general idea

Soviet Union:

  • Federov Avtomat, BR 1-2 (Moscow and Stalingrad) (WW1 era that maybe saw limited service early war, we don’t need it in Berlin)
  • AVS 36, BR 1-2
  • Mosin M1907, BR 1-2, WW1 era carbine
  • Mosin M91/30, BR 3, standard issue should appear basically everywhere
  • Mosin 1938 carbine, BR 3
  • Mosin 1944 carbine, BR 4, at the moment should only be in Berlin
  • PPSh 41, BR 3, standard SMG, should appear everywhere
  • SVT 38, BR 1-2, early war SA
  • SVT 40, BR 3, common SA, should appear everywhere
  • DP 27, BR 3, standard MG, appear everywhere
  • KV 1, BR 1-2, early war heavy
  • AS 44, BR 5, late war prototype, should only be in Berlin

Germany:

  • MP 38, BR 1-2, early SMG
  • MP 40, BR 3, standard SMG, should appear everywhere
  • MP 3008, BR 5, should only be in Berlin
  • Gewehr 33/40, BR 1-2, early rifle
  • Kar98k, BR 3, standard rifle, should appear everywhere
  • Kriegsmodel Kar, BR 5, only in Berlin, last ditch rifle
  • Gewehr 43, BR 4, shouldn’t appear in early battles
  • Mkb 42, BR 1-2, early prototype AR, should only be in Moscow and Stalingrad
  • Stg 44, BR 4, can appear in Normandy and Berlin
  • Stg 45, BR 5, only in Berlin
  • Lebel 1886, BR 5, WW1 French issued Volkssturm rifle
  • VG 1-5, BR 5, only in Berlin
  • Panzer 2 Flamm, BR 1-2, appears in Moscow and Stalingrad
  • Sd Kfz 234, BR 4, shouldn’t be in 3 because I wouldn’t want to see it in Stalingrad since it wasn’t there, just because it’s an armored car
  • King Tiger, BR 4, should appear in Normandy and Berlin
  • Panzerwerfer 42, BR 4, Normandy and Berlin

Now I will say this is not the definitive perfect solution, more like a rough/general idea of how it should be. Things are always liable to change and the introduction of new campaigns may shake this up, but this is more of a rough guide of how it should be for the game in its present state. In some ways I can make exceptions and others I’d want things a bit more fluid and open for content variety. In fact we could go on an individual case by case basis of what BR to place things or how BR should be changed. Regardless, we can take it from there.

Overall I think we should work towards making the new system a bit more historical

14 Likes
2

Its a bit hard to make it that accurate and still fun to play, it would be easier if you simply go after full years.

Rank1 1939-1940 Fair for both axis & soviets ww1 weapons were still used in large numbers.
Rank2 1941-1942 USA & Japan gets introducted
Rank3 1943-1944 The most important timeline for proper balance its important to remove 44 from 45.
Rank4 1944-45 The late war they could add conflicts for Japan vs Soviets, open usa late western front.
Rank5 This one could be reserved for post war weapons and coming up conflicts.

3

I am very worried. I think giving up historicity for the sake of balance is a wrong decision. No fps is balanced, even CS2 is unbalanced. And the selling point of Enlisted has never been balance, but historicity.

Balance is such a complex issue that even experienced teams cannot achieve complete balance, let alone teams at the level of Darkflow. This game should first ensure its historicity.

9 Likes
4

^ This and an immediate stop for prototype paper weapons no one knows about instead take those from WW1 they fit great into the early war time move the other ones higher so you dont need paper equipment, but still the fact that darkflow fully ditched ww1 is really strange they could move it to Rank 1 and ensure people have a good start instead of giving them the rubbish of early ww2, there are alot of ww1 weapons in the game but why not make a rank just for ww1 combat which doesnt go into the other ranks for example a Rank 0 we have almost enough weapons for that it just need new skins for germany and soviets and a french faction.

5

MP 40 better than Fedorov = :poop:
Kar98k better than AVS 36 = :poop:

No one will play in that type of crap :clown_face:

1 Like
6

Game lacks tools to make historical MM without decimating the balance.
For example soviets would spam KV-1 and germans king tigers because they are almost invulnerable.

2 Likes
7

I fully agree with burrito on the system he insisted however your take on the years instead of precise dates is very considerable too. If love for this system for the merge so they can keep historical integrity and be able to merge campaigns without anyone getting worked up over it.

8

I don’t think you read it all the way through. It would work too if they made the Fedorov and mkb far more expensive to make/buy than the mp40 and ppsh.

1 Like
9

Increase in cost will only frustrate new players and will cause even greater unbalance.

New pllayers will be stuck with basic gear because they can’t afford good stuff while veterans will have full squad of great, expensive guns because they can afford them.

1 Like
10

Then what would be a better solution? Because some sub machine guns can easily beat an assault rifle. Take the kiraly for instance. It can beat a fedorov user in close quarters and even medium ranges if used with a tad bit more precision.

11

What I meant was making the assault rifles more expensive than sub machine guns. Not every sub machine gun is inferior to the fedorov or mkb.

12

Still, you are just making it harder for new players to get the guns.
And not being able to equipp the same stuff as your enemy is enough to make it feel unbalanced.

13

Not to be that guy but it’s not like the KV and King Tiger aren’t insurmountable

Plus with a full human team chances are at least 30% of the team are actually knowledgeable and know how to deal with it. I could be in say Moscow and work out how to take down an enemy KV. Heck shooting his tracks, forcing him to come out to repair, and taking out his crew is just as effective

And even then a vehicle is only as good as his infantry. If your team can’t defend with boots on the ground then it doesn’t matter if you’re the ultimate tank

1 Like
14

And the zh 29 could be a tier 1-2 rifle just like the avs on the chart on this post.

15

But I haven’t got an answer for my question to your statement. How would you make it balanced and historically organized like the post here insists? Because I’m personally all for this suggestion that was on the post.

16

Just a thought, they could make Berlin Germany special by basically having all BRs so you could see Volkssturms with everything from early to late war weapons

ZH-29s, Stgs, Gewehr 41s, and everything in between

17

No, they are not. But they require extra effort to destroy.
That wouldn’t be bad on its own but because everything can be spamed, it would get annoying quite quickly.

Those 30% of player would have to focus all their attention on KV spam.

Or you can just spam HE shells on the point so nobody gets close to capturing it.

18

So Volkssturm still in Berlin however early war things can cross into it you mean? Or is it something else in mind you have?

19

We would need some kind of quality vs quantity balance. And I see only 2 ways:

  1. Limit to how much stuff you can equipp (for example net being able to equipp 9 FG42s)
  2. Limit what and when you can spawn (for example no KV-1 kongo line)

Both have some issues though.

20

So how would you limit the avs number? I guess how much you can equip per rifle squad for example or in general? If in general then how would you suppose?