More consistent weapon classifications

Suggestions
1

I don’t really know how to broach such a broad topic as this one so I’m just going to list weapons that don’t really work in their current role.

Avtomat Fedorova - Is not, and should not, be classified as an assault rifle. An assault rifle is a select fire rifle chambered in an intermediate rifle cartridge, like 7.62x39mm or 7.92x33mm, as opposed to a full power rifle cartridge, like 7.62x54mmR or 7.92x57mm. The AF is chambered in 6.5x50mmSR, a full power rifle cartridge, hence it should be in the same category as the BAR, not only because of the cartridge category, but because their actual role in combat were practically the same. (Well to be fair, the AF was used more like the Type 11 Light Machine Gun)

M2 Carbine and M2A1 Carbine - To start off with, it doesn’t really make sense why these two are two different classes of weapon. Somehow the M2A1 Carbine is an assault weapon, but the kills count as semi-auto kills, and the M2 Carbine is a semi-auto rifle, when reasonably, they should be assault rifles. Intermediate rifle cartridge and all that. This leads us neatly to the M1 Carbine.

M1 Carbine - Considering we have the class “Pistol Caliber Carbine” now, allowing such weapons to be equipped as both assault weapons and as rifles. It would make sense to rename this category to just “Carbine” and put the M1 Carbine into it along with hte PCC’s.

Gorov Light Machine Gun - Now this one kind of came out of nowhere, and it really doesn’t make sense, in any universe, to classify it as a “Semi-Automatic Rifle”. It makes more sense for it to be classified as a machine gun.

T20E1 - This one should also be in the same category as the BAR, because the intended use of this was to replace the BAR.

Beretta M1918 - This should be a PCC, since it’s not supposed to be a select-fire weapon.

FG 42 - Now this may ruffle some feathers, but the intended usage for this weapon was to provide supportive fire, like the BAR or AF.

To fix this problem with the Automatic Rifles not being consistently categorised, I suggest we introduce a category similar to how the PCC’s work. The category being “Automatic Rifle”, and it can be used as both a rifle and a machine gun. This category would include the FG 42, AF, BAR, W.A.R. etc.
There can be some discussion as to what category this should count as for battle pass challenges and the like, but in general, this feels like a good solution.

Please provide feedback, please and thank you.

8 Likes
2

Well only combat that im familiar it was used at was winter war and definitely wasnt a supplement to dp27 as there were plenty of them.

if we’re nitpicking here by US army definition they aint assault rifles.

It was supposed to replace all of the paratroops weapons as one universal weapon.

Not exactly sure why we would need more categorys if the function remains the same ?

3

I was with you until you got to the automatic rifle section, then it got confusing.

I agree the m1 carbine should be available to more soldier classes like the other pistol caliber carbines, and as long as the m2 goes to assaulters and automatic rifles go to gunners I’ll be happy with whatever you call them. The federov does seem to straddle the line so I could see valid arguments for either class.

6 Likes
4

  1. “Trained in tactics with the new weapon, they concluded that the Fedorov worked best as a crew-served weapon: the gunner armed with the Fedorov, and an ammo bearer armed with an Arisaka rifle. As both weapons used the same ammo and same 5-round stripper clips, this allowed for the greatest flexibility. It also allowed for the ammo bearer to fire defensively, while the gunner reloaded.”

  2. The US didn’t have any definition of what an assault rifle was until they met the StG 44, and they didn’t adopt an assault rifle until 1964, 20 years after that.

  3. I’ll give you that one.

  4. The point is that the “Automatic Rifle” category would be usable by machine gunners and riflemen/engineers/radio operators/AT-gunners.
    Like how PCC’s are usable by assaulters and riflemen/engineers etc.
    One could balance it to only make it machine gunners and only one other class type, maybe even make it so that automatic rifles are equipable by machine gunners and assaulters.
    There are a lot of combinations, my point is that they should be more versatile.

5

My point with the automatic rifle thing was that they should be both rifles and machine guns, it usage at least.
And yeah, the M2 really shouldn’t be a rifleman weapon.

6

Ya I disagree with that point. I think automatic weapons should be limited to the classes specifically designed for automatics.

7

So the AVS and AVT shouldn’t be used by riflemen?

8

it should be in the same category as the BAR, not only because of the cartridge category, but because their actual role in combat were practically the same.

Now, the classification of the Fedorov Avtomat was a bit foggy, in that it was generally designed for mobile support fire, it was used generally as a light machine-gun. It gets even more obscure because of the under-powered 6.5x50mmSR Arisaka cartridge, which is a bit less powerful than what one would consider a “full-power cartridge”. So it’s kind of whatever aspect you weigh the classification more on that would decide its terminology. But I think it would be safe to classify it as a “battle rifle”, since it wasn’t quite designed as a machine-gun, but it functions more like one in active use.

they should be assault rifles.

The M2 and M2A1 carbines should certainly not be classified as assault rifles; they are select-fire carbines. Their effective range also isn’t representative of that of an assault rifle, falling quite short at 180 meters.

but the intended usage for this weapon was to provide supportive fire, like the BAR or AF.
This, I believe should be classified as a battle rifle, using my same reasoning that I used for the Fedorov Avtomat.

9

Yes I’m of the opinion that they should also be exclusively gunner weapons. Also they should have much higher recoil. It makes more sense historically and gameplay wise.

Historically They were sporadically issued, had high recoil, poor accuracy, overheated quickly and were withdrawn from service by early 1942. The sniper version was more popular since it was used in semi-auto, but it was replaced by the svt by that time as well.

In game those negative traits aren’t modeled and it’s basically a BAR with none of the drawbacks. It would fit better in the gunner class with the other automatic rifles and lmgs.

5 Likes
10

Since when did soviets use arisakas ?

This I wouldnt mind, considering the broken state of MG’s there would be a reason to take MG squad other than HMG.
But then again, nerf others to buff 1 class :person_shrugging:

11

The Avtomat Fedorova was made in the Russian Empire, and the reason why it’s chambered in 6.5 Arisaka is because the Russians at the time had more 700,000+ Type 38’s. And unless those rifles just disappeared after the civil war then they were probably still around during WWII.

2 Likes
12

Personally i dont think any gun capable of full auto fire should be a rifleman/general weapon

Semi autos and bolt actions only

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13

According to wiki it was due to fact that producing the own ammunition 6.5 fedorov was out of question so they were converted to 6.5 arisaka.

15

Because they had 6.5 Arisaka in abundance, due to them importing a lot of Arisakas, and it was less powerful, and was also semi-rimmed.

16

I agree with most of this. I don’t really care about the gold order weapons, but the M2 carbine should be reclassified as an SMG (it’s not an assault rifle, more like a PDW-type SMG sort of). The FG42 should be reclassified as a machine gun since that’s what it was (it even says so in the games description of it).

Or limit the amount of automatic weapons that a single squad can take, so we no longer see full rifle squads with M2s, FGs, AVTs, etc.

3 Likes
17

Except Russian Emprire collapsed and part of those weapon went to Finland

They couldn’t even produce new Mosins until Mustacheman industry revolution, and you expect them produce high quality rifle with fragiles and high maintenance parts such as Fedorov? Hell they couldn’t even produce a improved version of Mosin and just adopt the old one with modification, their industrial capability were so low quality that the Finns replaced all their Mosin with Finns modification suited for marksman grade

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18

Which depleted before Battle of Moscow, cuz Japs aren’t really friendly with them

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19

And?

And?
Are you trying to say that the AF shouldn’t be in the game at all?

20

Exactly

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21

So basically only the widely adopted and utilized weapons should be in the game… is what you’re saying…