Possibly doesn’t - what are the labels for the ammo in the aircraft modifications in-game?
Also page 86 of that document I linked has the 75mm ammo and makes a mark as to which is used by which gun - it’s a bit hard to read, but the only ammo they specifically link to the Type 88 is the AA HE ammo - there are some question marks for other types tho’
I did notice that specifically with the ammo types, with how they’d be marked with an ‘X’ if they were documented as being used in a certain gun. In the source I have listed it does mention the Type 95 - 7-cm (75-mm) Armor-Piercing High-Explosive Projectile that would have been used (according to this source) in the Type 88 AA gun, was either a special niche round or that (upon re-evaluation that most likely) the Type 88 AA was a special modification specifically for this plane, which is why I suspect the APHE might not be showing up in the table you provided.
Here’s the direct quote I’m talking about: “Type 88 7 cm field A.A. gun (special): Case, 19 9/16 inches.”
Furthermore on that point, I think the reason why the APHE isn’t showing up in the " Japanese Field Artillery
by United States. War Department. Military Intelligence Division " is because it’s talking about field guns specifically and not talking about Aircraft guns or modifications of those field guns.
Whilst my sources is speaking directly about Navy and Army ammunitions, as the title is " Japanese Explosive Ordnance – Army Ammunition – Navy Ammunition "
So I believe we’re both perfectly correct with what we’re saying, but we’re just confusing two similar but slightly different things. I believe we’ll have a decent idea of what APHE shell specifically could have been used if we compare the weight of the filling and projectile, of both our sources and find the closest match, to figure out which 75mm shell has been necked up to the appropriate case length of 19.55 inches to be used in the special modification of the type 88 AA gun.
Not even sure if you can compare the duck with this one as this one has 460 grams of tnt filler making it about as powerfull as the crusader 57mm HE which isnt bad. So it could actually capable dual use against tanks and infantry alike.
So even if no tank is spawned if you could still hunt infantry and are not stuck doing loops around the battlefield waiting to be shoot down.
When checking the stats inside of WT the shell has a fuze detonation delay of 1.3 m once activated, which might explain why the devs designated it as AP instead of APHE in the demonstration as the HE part might not happen bevor overpenetrating a target.
That would be my guess if it wasnt just a mistake on part of gaijin.
Not sure that figure can be correct - that much HE would take us an awful lot of volume and reduce the wall and nose thickness quite significantly - but the total projectile mass is only 40 grams more than the HE shell… it doesn’t really add up - you can’t have BOTH a high HE content AND good penetration versus the values for HE if the shell is pretty much the same size.
Also oddly the muzzle velocity is a lot lower than the HE shell - it’s all a bit strange
This is the information provided specifically about the Type 95 - 7-cm (75-mm) Armor-Piercing High-Explosive Projectile, extrapolated from the Japanese Explosive Ordnance – Army Ammunition – Navy Ammunition Chapter 4 – Section 1 ARMY PROJECTILES
Weight of projectile, filled (fuzed): 6.21 kg. (13.66 pounds).
Weight of filling: 0.46 kg. (1.01 pounds).
Filling: “ONA” a mixture of picric acid and dinitronaphthalene.
Diameter at bourrelet: 75.0 mm (minus tol.).
Length over all (without fuze): No data.
Length protruding from case: 265.5 mm (10 7/16 inches).
The weight and the mixture of picric acid and dinitronaphthalene almost perfectly matches up with the M95 APHE in the ammunition chart you provided for 75mm field gun ammunition, the only slight difference being the weight of 13.69 pounds as opposed to 13.66. Though it could just be a slight error or even a discrepancy between the two shells used for both sources.
Additionally, the fuzing base appears to be the exact same between both sources, but they’re listed slightly different, as in your source ‘Type’ is listed as “M” but they otherwise line up despite some wording difference.
My sources: " Fuzing: Type 95 small base fuze "
Your source: " M95 AP Small Base "
And if it’s worth anything the round in War thunder really doesn’t have the best velocity in the world either.
I’d question that amount of HE in a supposedly 75mm AP round - as per my reasoning the math just doesn’t stack up.
I found this diagram in Japanese Explosive Ordnance – Army Ammunition – Navy Ammunition Chapter 4 – Section 1 ARMY PROJECTILES - to me this is a naval SAP (Semi-armour-piercing) shell - not a land APHE - ie it has slightly thickened nose, but not nearly as much as a “real” APHE.:
Compare it to another 75mm AP round - here we can see a much thicker nose and the cavity is only holding 53gm filler:
I’m not trying to say it’s an “AP” round, I’m disagreeing with the war thunder wiki saying it’s “AP-T”, I’ve been saying that the specific shell used in Type 88 AA gun (when mounted in this specific aircraft) is a APHE, or rather that’s what it’s listed as. Whilst it may very well share a closer similarity to a SAP, I think it would be reasonable to assume that for the sake of simplicity it was labelled as APHE despite some difference in a typical APHE round as I would assume, SAP is usually more naval specific round.
Again I think we’re both being correct about what we’re trying to say, but we’re both trying to prove different points without necessarily being wrong.
I’m just trying to say that the specific Special Type 88 AA gun used in the Ki-109 used a APHE as one of its shell types, whether it’s closer to a true APHE or SAP isn’t for me to say since I don’t know the exact ratio and by what standard Japan held that ratio at the time. But I think it’s reasonable and logical from what you’ve said and provided and what I’ve provided, we can corroborate and agree at the very least it isn’t an “AP” shell as some things have listed it.
Just an FYI - I put the values of these 2 shells into the WT deMarre calculator (I think this is still the one in use although it is from 2019) and at 0 range and 0 angle they get 82mm and 107mm penetration respectively assuming both have 710m/s velocity.
It would be great to see it in an event, but still will lack armament except for one 75mm cannon, but that justifies such a low BR.
Actually I would really like to see Ki 102 Otsu, it can destroy infantry with 57 im cannon and vehicles with bombs (4-100kg bombs/ 2 - 250kg bombs/ 1 - 500kg bomb). But in War thunder, where they take the equipment, the airplane in general has no possibility of hanging bombs, so today made a topic on War thunder Ru Forum, now players vote for the input, already 20 votes, 90% in favor.
Here’s hoping that the Ki-102 Otsu might be so fortunate as to receive it’s bombs one day, as it rightfully should.
And I think the Ki-102 Otsu would be absolutely awesome to see in the game one day too.
P-39 Airacobra
True…i purposefully didnt mention that one because I always found its cannon horrible for tank killing, but the plane itself Is great for killing other planes.
That’s exactly why I want it in the game : )
Wasn’t the Aircobra in the game for some time at the beginning? I have a memory of seeing it… maybe just wishful thinking.
I think the closest we got was the P 63 for the Soviets
The maximum load was 500 kg, namely two 250 kg bombs.
Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War:
In any case, we have to wait until the plane is added to War thunder to then ask for it to be moved to Enlsited.
You should read my post again… cause I literally wrote that the Otsu(B) can carry bombs but the Ko(A) cannot.
I’m sorry, I didn’t notice.
