have you ever actually had exercise and again it was in the fiedl manual and you can see vids of them being used as light machine gunsyou can hipfireon move of course it’s not an ideal thing to clear out a room but this is a fucking game real stamina/adrenaline/movement don’t apply
If you honestly think it’s possible to run around a room and hip fire an LMG accurately you are either stupid or uneducated.
In the few scenarios where it’s a good idea to actually hip fire with an LMG there are a few requirements.
One you HAVE to plant yourself down otherwise you’ll get pushed over be the recoil and be unable to control it in the slightest.
Two it is only for SUPPRESSING FIRE, you CANNOT accurately burst at 5 different soldiers in 4 seconds.
Just because you are “strong” doesn’t mean you’ll be able to sprint fire while hip firing an LMG. Just ask a former German infantrymen and they’ll tell you the exact reasons why you cannot do this, and if it was this great why it would be an idiotic move to give everyone an MG.
“Accurately” in a general direction it’s called suppresive fire sped and in close quarters it essentially does not matter i’m not reading the rest seethe cope and dilate
Did you completely ignore the fact you yourself are not supposed to move while shooting it? Because that’s pretty huge factor.
ignore the troll
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Pls tell me that the gun will go off to the sky i am waiting for it
Depends on what you call LMG. The notation of Light, Medium, Heavy and General Purpose machine guns is something that started to be used way after WW2. At the beginning of WW2 there where generally 2 categories. An MG that requires deployment, like Maxim, which we typically call heavy machine guns nowadays. The other one was squad level weapons, like for example BAR, which is more of an assault rifle in modern terms. Their main difference from the SMG is a use of full caliber round instead of pistol round, so it stays effective at the range of the rifle and able to provide support to other troops at such distance. That’s how most countries outfitted their troops.
Germans used their experience in WW1 to make a different decision - a general purpose machine gun. Something that can be used as a squad weapon, mounted stationary on tripods, mounted on various vehicles and etc. Mind you, non of the weapons ever where designed for “hip fire”, that includes SMGs.
When it comes to recoil and ability to fire such weapons without planting them on a bipod/tripod and etc. It depends on specific weapon. For example if we take two semi-modern machine guns, an M249 and M240, just looking at their stock alone you can see their intended deployment “mode”. While M249 can be deployed on bipod, it has ergonomics to be used while standing, crouching or even walking. The M240 is meant to be fired from a deployed position, it’s weight alone makes it very difficult to just hold it without support. At the same time, that extra weight does help to compensate for a much higher recoil due to the full caliber round alone, compared to intermediate caliber round used on M249.
Back to original question, in the light of all the above, can you hip fire and LMG? Well, you technically can hip fire even MMG and in some cases it will be even easier than LMG. Yes, some armies where trained to hip fire, but it’s not what is used in the game. In RL you would utilize the strap and specific posture. It would be done in close quarters or at short distance, it’s not meant as an effective targeted fire but rather a suppression or just “spray and pray”. In reality, an MG42 gunner would probably have a better recoil control when hip firing than trying to shoot it while aiming down the site without deploying it first. Which is reflected in the game. What is not reflected in the game is realistic engagement distances. I bet an MMG would be extremely dangerous in cqb in real-life for a simple fact of it’s rate of fire and use of full caliber round that would pen most walls and cover. But the situation where an MMG squad would have to use their main weapon in CQB is just super rare.
If you want a more realistic use of MGs in the game, we need more “realistic maps”. Like if devs nerf MMGs from being able to hip-fire, as done in many games, then we need maps that can accommodate deployment of MGs. Otherwise you can remove them all together. There is no point in having a weapon that is useless in it’s dedicated role and is abused in some other roles.
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Yeah I agree, although I was mainly talking about the MG line for the Germans.
can you please stop projecting onto other sides and other forums?
Just my 2 cents.
Are MG’s good in cleaning rooms? Yeah.
Are they the only thing good in cleaning rooms? No. SMGs are fine too. Grenades are lovely.
So do I feel they need to be nerfed? No.
Every weapon is good for something and here MGs, SMGs, Grenades and the barbeque grill (flamethrower) perform quite well.
But in the end the side that spots the other faster, aim better wins the fight.
And please dont argue with realism. In this game you can fix yourself after been shot and everything is fine. It is a game after all.
And MGs do not have 500 round belts.
The problem is that MGs are good but not in their intended role, at least not as good as in CQC.
Yeah I see what you mean. This reminds me of Red Orchestra and the Darkest Hour mod for it. Red Orchestra has a specific mechanics for hip fire that was suppose to make it very difficult to do on anything but SMGs. Unfortunately, people learned how to accurately hip fire with anything, including German MGs. In Darkest Hour mod, the solution to this was completely forbidding to fire any weapon that is suppose to be deployed, like most of the MGs, but at the same time they made maps way less claustrophobic. Couple of MGs there can stop an assault completely. To solve that, you need tanks and a lot of smoke. Which means a level of coordination between players. Same levels of coordination in Enlisted will end 20 minute round in 5 minutes.
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And if we get bigger and more realistic maps then more MGs will be used as intended but they will be so effective that people will be asking to nerf them.
The intended role of a MG is to defend a certain space. dont move just sit there and wait.
Not a very appealing gameplay style and not very useful in Enlisted where the battlefield is shifting.
If they change it that way, you may be satisfied but I think no one would play it anymore.
Congratulation a weapon type is dead.
But that is of course just my opinion, maybe I am wrong.
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They can be used to attack. The only problems are maps and buggy bipoding.
I used them defensively to attack in the last open berlin test (I know, it sounds strange).
Well, 50% of invasion is about sitting, waiting and defending. Yet somehow it may be the most popular gamemode.
(To all of your points.)
So why do people use sniper rifles? Their usage is mainly deffencive, sit back and play “point and click”. Yet people use them (I would even say overuse).You may try to convince me that sniper rifle was meant to be used in the aggressive way in CQC but I doubt. It can be used in offencive role but not way (at least it’s not the most effective choice for that scenario).
The same in case of LMGs, they are defencive weapons but it doesn’t mean that they can’t be used offencively, sure they won’t be as effective as SMGs (utleast they shouldn’t be, unlike in the game now) but that’s not their puropse.
Also, it there was no point in using static weapon, why would anyone use MMGs in BFV (or PS, HLL)? (I know that they aren’t the most popular weapons but certainly not dead ones.)
So a defensive weapon is not automatically a dead one.
The biggest problem stopping LMGs to be used like LMGs are maps. The rest is inconvenience.
Ps.
This post is probably confusing as I am half sleeping right now but I hope that you’ll get what I mean.
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Yeah a got your point but have a different opinion.
Take the sniper rifle from your example. You said for yourself that you can use it in this game quitre well.
So we could make a post that they are too strong and they should be put back into their role.
And we are back to the same post. Same subject.
Of course a weapon is not immediatley dead, but not very appealing.
Not really. Because sniper rifle is used like a sniper rifle and if it’s good at it, then everything is ok. While the LMG is not good at being LMG and is better at being the SMG. And that’s the problem.
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The sniper rifle can be used as is. The amount of ammunition you get without extra ammo box is quite enough for like 30-50% of the round. You can deploy sniper rifle, but you don’t have to.
Deployed MG is much more effective. I’m comparing from using it from the same points where I’ve used sniper rifle. But MG has other implications. First you run slower than any other soldier. You need a point which is not so close that any random SMG will cut you. Then most of the time, you just have to put sandbags as mounting mg on windows and such is finicky, then you just have to build an ammo box as even with the large ammo bag you get ammunition to shoot for about 2 minutes or less.
When I started Moscow campaign as Germans, almost a month ago, MGs where a good utility. Now as people learned how to take points fast, I have barely any time to do anything, sometimes by the time engineer finished building ammo box, the point is taken and we need to re-locate.
On Normandy I really did my best to try to enjoy MGs but the map layouts are such that it’s barely useful at anything but cqb. But even on Moscow now, because of how fast the point after point is getting taken, their usability diminishes to occupying nearest building, deploying on a window and killing few people before you get runned down, mortared or just bombed.
I actually like using it how it is intended. VERY useful and effective in invasion. Create a kill zone cutting off reinforcements to the objective and dig in. Used 1 MG soldier all game.
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The actual German squad tactics did hip fire MG42 while every one else threw grenades.