In order to salvage the so-called historical authenticity and in-game balance, I would like to propose a new point system, although it is still far from perfect. It might be more suitable when combined with the year-based classification system (as mentioned in my previous post).
For example, each person has a point limit of 100. An FG42-2 is worth 5 points, so a squad of 9 soldiers equipped with FG42s would cost 45 points. Theoretically, a player can carry a maximum of only 20 FG42s. Of course, I haven’t taken into account the factor of tanks here, and they should also have corresponding points. A bolt-action rifle might be worth 0 or 1 point. In this situation, players can’t carry top-tier equipment as they please. They need to consider some strategies and carry some lower-level bolt-action rifles and the like (or some inferior equipment from the later stages of the war) for a more reasonable team configuration. In this way, we can obtain a bit of strategic and historical elements. All the numbers mentioned above are just for illustrative purposes.
The very idea of limiting the number of weapons in battles is not bad, but it seems to me that not everyone will understand how it works. If you mean the limit of points on the squad before the fight, then it’s not bad, but if the limit works in battle and is common to the players, then this is already very bad, because it is not clear how it will work, and most likely there will be dishonest Players who break mechanics and equip their squad completely with FG 42 2 rifles, leaving a team with bolts rifle to be torn to pieces by enemies. The very idea of limiting some samples of weapons is not bad and promising, but requires high-quality study and many tests. It seems to me that before limiting something, it is necessary to bring the highest tier to a normal balanced state, as it will be like with automatic rifles: they were distributed to everyone and everyone, but they themselves still do not know whether they are needed at all, that is, it is still not in balance.
I’ve suggested something similar, in the past. A certain table-top miniatures game (you know the one) uses point values for troops and equipment. I think it’s a good idea. Allows for more diversity of equipment rather than just stacking the best things one has… In theory. Different “BRs” would just be different max point totals, in my thinking.
remind me the concept I was making for make grenade launcher spam less, only 1 soldier could be able to carry it and it would be the AT dude, so you would need to choose if that dude will use AT weapon or the grenade rifle, so it would make the AT squad more viable as example and I get this thinking in how RMN-50 works on soviets
I don’t have the energy to continue refining this proposal for now. The repeated delays are really disheartening. If you have any ideas, feel free to put them forward.
I’ve been thinking the same. That should’ve been done since the beginning tho. That way it wouldn’t have been necessary to nerf it, if it had been limited to mortar man or AT guy. Maybe for another topic, but I don’t think a grenade launcher shoots the way it does in game. I believe it should have a more pronounced ballistic curve, a bit similar to the RMN-50. (Don’t quote me on this, I’m not an expert. I’m sure someone else knows more)
The other thing is that all these changes, including the point system that was proposed by OP, which I agree with, would be unwelcomed by a portion of the community if it were implemented. Because players have been spoiled with the weapon system for so long that any major change would affect the brainrot way of playing they’re used to. Things like 9-man squads all with grenade launchers or full auto rifles, suicide-crashing planes without penalties, etc. These are all ways of playing that unfortunately have become normalized and accepted for so long, that it’s now their bread and butter. Enlisted aims to the lowest common denominator in their playerbase, those who don’t want to think, and just want to shoot stuff. Which is sad, as I think I Enlisted has much bigger potential as a combined arms game.
Heroes & Generals weight system, eh?
A point system sounds overly complex.
It would also require that the devs assign the appropriate point values according to the performance of whatever piece of equipment is being rated on top of the BR system.
Not to mention, it’s another point of balance contention when a faction has more expensive equipment compared to factions sharing the same BR.
We already have a more than a few discrepancies with the BR system in its already very simplified form right now, we don’t need another point of error.
Respectfully; I disagree. I think it would be quite simple as each item could be given a specific point cost.
Which is why (in my conception of this) BR is now how many total points are in your army. It should be a simple matter of assigning a value to each piece of equipment which would replace the value that is currently BR 1-5 with a say, 1-50 point value (any numbers mentioned are abstracts).
It might be EASIER to balance; lower the point value of an item by 2-3 and you just buffed it without touching any other values; same for nerfing.
Part of the problem, as I see it, with the BR system IS it’s simplicity. It requires symmetrical balance, which is not really achievable. The way each side waged war was often very different, and took place in different theatres; their equipment reflects that.
I am not saying this is the perfect system; just that it has been used successfully in other places, and is worthy of consideration.
People do not understand how current BR works so how do you expect them to understand an even less transparent system?
So you get fucked if you want to bring additional squads exeeding the 3 squads needed to cycle, for flavor.
How do you balance tanks?
If someone brings a balanced army with both infantry and tanks/planes he will only have score for BR 3-ish tank at most, but will face a tiger 2, because that one players has disarmed his infantry squads down to the rifle, making the balanced players perform at an extrem disadvantage.
If any of your responses to these very basic problems with the system is “just add a special rule, duh”
then you failed to make a sytem that actually is easier to understand.
Because enlisted needs anothere merge level rework… why not turn enlisted into anothere game instead?
People don’t understand the BR because one BRV weapon tosses you in to BRV regardless of how many BRI weapons you have. This fixes that confusion making it MORE transparent. “Here is how many points you have until the next BR”
You still have squad minimums and maximums. Even in the aforementioned table top game; there are certain requirements for numbers of squads.
Well, first off; because when someone does get to the Tiger and blows it up, the Tiger player is going to have to cycle through a bunch of barebones squads that won’t be able to cap or defend points, and the Tiger can’t cap or defend points either, making the Tiger player essentially useless to his teammates. Also, the guy in the Tiger lives in mortal fear of the guy in the CAS who will force him to cycle through all his worthless squads.
Second: the guy with the BR3 tank is also rocking a squad with T20s and running roughshod over the Tiger player any time he’s not in his tank; or blowing up the Tiger player’s squads with his M4A3.
It’s not a merge level rework. It’s just changing the composition of the equipment allowed in battles. It’s just multiplying the BR of an item by say, 10, and then adding bonuses or penalties based on performance.
If anything, this would take the game CLOSER to what it WAS.
Also, it will probably never happen. A certain publishing company out of the UK (you know the one) probably owns a trademark on the concept and would sue anyone who tries to use it. I’m just saying “it’d be neat if”.
Point system has been proposed many times before in different variants
Its basically like building a deck in steel division 2.
Personally i like it, but its always had a very mixed reception
I don’t know, new players already have trouble understanding the game, I think this system would confuse people more
Agreed!
Please, stop trying to nerf or restrict everything in this game. The BR system already sufficiently restricts weapons. Let people play the weapons they want to use and the vehicles they want to employ. We don’t need any more restrictions!
Let me give you an example of the nonsense restrictions that already exist in this game: For Germany—at the BR V level—I have 8 tanks that are locked down into one squad (the 3rd Panzer Regiment). These tanks cannot be found in any other squad, which means I can only use one of them. Of course, I’m going to use the best one—while the rest of them sit idle in my account gathering dust and will never be used. What’s the point of having all of these tanks in the game—and taking the time to unlock them, and spending the silver to purchase them—if I can’t use them? This design that makes no sense whatsoever. We should all be able to use whichever tanks (or other vehicles) that we want to use in this game. These restrictions limit employing proper strategies and tactics in the game, not to mention that they kill the “fun factor.” Please fix this!
I think what he said is already sufficient. There will always be people who object. Some people like having fully automatic weapons everywhere, while others don’t.
It’s worth mentioning that in the point system, if you use the best tank, you won’t be able to use many of the best guns. If you want to use many of the best guns, you’ll have to bring out those dusty tanks. I’m looking for a mechanism to deal with those pieces of equipment that will never be used in the game.
The way Steel Division does it is have 3 Phases:
could be similar
Phase A: 1-10 minutes: Minimum Spawns of Strong equipment
Phase B: 10-20 minutes: Moderate Spawns of Strong Equipment
Phase C: 20-30 Minutes: Maximum Spawns of Strong Equipment
The Earlier you bring in the strong stuff, the less of it you get in the long run. So it makes it preferable to be more reliant on lesser equipment until the later stages (but you dont have to)
Obviously theres more to it in building your deck, but I really like that
It would have to be on a squad by squad basis, because anything else would just be penalizing people with more squad slots. And then you’re left with a system that promotes vehicle spamming because they would effectively be unrestricted relative to infantry, which the game is actually supposed to be about.
Imo a separate realistic-ish / historical-ish mode with such system could be interesting. I also made similar suggestions in the past.
But currently I don’t think the game can afford to sink resources in development of something like this.