Making Plane Gameplay more Impactful

Suggestions
1

Planes are an integral part of combined arms warfare but I feel in game they can be lacking. Sometimes there is little point in using planes. Most players choose ground vehicles over planes. Yes there are some particularly good planes but most of the time there’s little point in flying. The job of a fighter plane is to fight other planes but you can’t really do your job if there isn’t anything to shoot at. Sometimes it is even seen as strategic in this game to not shoot down enemy planes because it denies the enemy team 1 to 2 squads that would be in their way on the ground. This game really is ground first

I feel plane gameplay should be refined so it can truly shine in what’s supposed to be a combined arms game. Planes should be more active in battle. This increases the dynamic between ground vs air and air vs air gameplay. On the ground both teams should care about shooting down enemy planes while defending their own planes and planes feel like they play a pivotal role in defending and attacking objectives.

First, overhaul Bombing runs to be Heavy Bomber planes instead with better defenses and a stronger payload. Bombing runs really are lackluster. They’re easy to shoot down, have a long cooldown, and barely effectively drop their bombs. Most of the time they barely hit anything. Bombing runs should actually be a worthwhile ability as well as something the enemy team should fear and struggle to take down. They wouldn’t feel like a waste to call in and the increased threat makes the enemy have to actually focus on taking down as many as possible. This makes it more important for both teams

It also gives representation as these famous heavy bombers would most likely never be playable vehicles, while the current bombing runs are literally playable vehicles. The strategic bombing campaigns were some of the most daring and important operations of the war

US: B-17
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Theoretically in the Pacific the US Heavy Bomber could be the B-29 since it was exclusively used in the Pacific and is so iconic
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UK: Avro-Lancaster
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USSR: PE-8
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Germany: He 177 Greif
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Italy: P.108
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Japan: G8N
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Second, make Paratrooper planes and Supply planes fly a longer distance before reaching their point. This gives enemy planes a chance to shoot them down. Cmon how many times have you been a vehicle or infantry and got killed moments after spawning. My point is let’s not act like it would be a big deal. Attacking enemy Paratrooper planes could either result in total destruction, or killing the squad, or sending the plane off course. You think paratroopers had a smooth landing, they had to fly deep into enemy territory as flak and air defenses peppered the sky, the US lost over 42 transport planes on D-Day

Third, add more “things” for our planes to attack/ defend. These would be Radio squad call-ins

Recon Planes would fly over the battlefield spotting enemy vehicles, structures, rally points, etc.
US: L-4 Grasshopper

UK: Taylorcraft Auster

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Soviet Union: Polikarpov Po-2

Germany: Fi 156 Storch

Italy: Ro.37 Lince
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Japan: Ki-76
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Incendiary Bombing Runs would be Bombing runs that have incendiary bombs. They could have a longer cooldown than regular bombing runs

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Airstrikes would be a powerful precision strike. They are able to be shot down and intercepted before they reach their targets. They are more vulnerable than Bombing runs because they’re just a single undefended but powerful target
Allies: JB-2
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USSR: 10Kh
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Germany: V-1
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Japan: MXY-7
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Fourth, I am inspired about bombing runs, you may call them in but they take time to reach their targets and the enemy has a chance to shoot them down and deny them. This gave me an idea about artillery

When Gun, Rocket, and Smoke Artillery is called in artillery batteries are spawned in way in the back of the team’s gray zone. Like Bombing runs there would be a short timer before the artillery strike begins. This gives enemy planes a chance to destroy these artillery pieces. The artillery strike is most to least powerful based on how many were destroyed
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6 Likes
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First point: I guess yes? By a bit … but it is already pretty balanced. I dont want bombing runs to become make the intire map into an instand death zone, but a small increase in effectiveness might be a good idea.

Second point: Absolutly not, para’s have already been nerfed and now it already takes very long before you can land. Often you killed by enemies who spot you, especially since the squad lands very slowly. Making their landing even harder would just make them impossible to play. Its just not an idea that ads anything besides a smal dopamine boost for plane players and extreme frustration for players with para-squads.

Thirds point: I guess? But you want players to fly recon planes or AI. More airstrikes is cool, but does not really change to much because a team is stil waiting for the cool down. So, cool, but does it really solve the issue?

Fourth point: Kind of awesome idea, but adding masive development time. New assets would have to be created for artillery and rocket artillery for every faction as well as an expansion to all maps. … thats just not worth the time in my opinion.

That I think is the main problem with your idea in general. Most players are infantry, and two tank players max and two plane players max (one for each type). So the emphasis should be on the infantry and their gameplay. The tanks are also more important since fight together with, and against, infantry in a very direct maner. Detroying tanks is fun and detroying infantry with a tank is also fun. Sitting at back of the map with an Anti-Air gun waiting for the plane to do its next bombing run is not.
Planes are also not available to all players. Their often researched last and requeres a lot of investment in silver, most starting players simply cant ented this form of gameplay, especially since a lot of early planes suck major penis, meaning you have to grind before you can even play planes (this is also a bit of an issue with tanks, but there are a lot more playable low BR tanks, and as mentioned before, they impact gameplay more).
The question therfore becomes, why? Why invest so much into a part of the game that to most players is nothing more than an annoying recurring artillery strike that always comes out of nothing? I am sorry if I am a bit mean here. I really like some of these ideas, but I think you first have to formulate an awnser ot the question why development time should be spend on something that is quite niche.

1 Like
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I’d argue balance isn’t even the right word to use because BR are rather ineffective in the first place. Whether its your team or the enemy’s I always see they barely get any kills. They’re mostly just an XP farm

Changing them to Heavy Bomber planes would also give these famous planes representation since most likely they will never be playable vehicles

I think its good for both sides. It makes Paratroopers high risk high reward as well as giving the enemy a counter if they spawn in the air. Paras have to choose whether they want to spawn on the ground where they can get straight into the action or spawn in the air where they can get an extra loadout plus chances where they can drop on the flanks. I like intense dynamic gameplay

They would be AI

Not necessary, literally just place em in the back. Solved. They don’t have to be super advanced just 5 artillery pieces.

That’s the point of one day… :wink:

But then why do we have planes in the first place. Its supposed to be a combined arms game. HLL doesn’t have planes because it is purely infantry focused and slow and tactical. If planes are apart of this game then should feel like an integral part of the team.

No one really has to sit at the back of the map stalking planes. Even now its situational. Usually there’s one guy who builds an AA gun and uses it when necessary. Most players wouldn’t just sit in an AA gun all match. Usually you build an AA gun, continue to fight, and hop on when you hear a plane coming

Again then why are planes in this game in the first place. On a separate note I have said before they should give everyone 1 tank and 1 plane slot. So by default 3 infantry, 1 tank, 1 plane (APC and Rider basically count as infantry). That would increase their usage.

My overall point is that planes should have more gameplay opportunities so they feel like an important piece of the team, because if not then why are they in the game in the first place

1 Like
4

B-17 my beloved. My favorite bomber plane of all time. Can we get the G variant? I like guns

The idea of sending the plane off course and making it so the paratroopers don’t land where they’re supposed to would be incredibly cool and quite historical considering how botched every single airborne operation was in WWII except that single one in the Pacific

More weather balloon types of things maybe? It always was a cool concept and a great help for defenders

2 Likes
5

Bombing runs definitely need a better buff besides higher altitude. Each aircraft drops only 4 of each nations smallest bombs. If the count is only to be 4, 250kg / 500lbs should be dropped. Or at least that should be the case in BR3 - 5.

Don’t hate the idea of recon planes though that might be a little ridiculous if they can spot everything. But I do get your idea, add priority targets for interception. Maybe only spot within a certain radius or path? (Like how hell let loose recon plane works)

Don’t really see a need to change paras or the need for a precision strike. Paratrooper planes can already be intercepted and precision strikes are already done by the players. Though with that said, a V1 strike would be cool but they would probably be spammed like crazy… Hence more reason to fly and shoot them down.

2 Likes
6

No heavy bombers too many people use them already freezing people out of artillery strikes. You want heavier bombs you need a smaller area, bomb runs cover half the active map. Too easy to shoot down maybe at higher levels br4 5 3 and under almost never saw them shot down. Besides how much stronger they have to be weaker than an arty strike, that’s there role longer cool down for weaker larger area. Rockets are already bad enough for passive kills without risk of dying. Ideally there should be 2 lines risk vs reward the lower the risk the lower the reward should be.

3 Likes
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The B-17 was always my favorite bomber, however, medium bombers would probably be best, like the B-25, especially since it is already in the same weight and payload range as the Tu-25 and Ju-188. However, until DF addresses the 20 feet of reinforced concrete roofs they implement in this game, bombers are useless unless the enemy is standing outside.

2 Likes
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Yes the inability of bombers to kill anyone anywhere anytime is truly the biggest problem with enlisted, if only we could remove all cover and rearm in air the game would be perfect.

2 Likes
9

Yes but not even HVAR can match the might of the V1

If Battlefield that is more arcadey than this game can have V1 then I think they can work here

That’s the point of high risk high reward. The Airstrike would be very powerful but it’s just a single undefended target making shooting it down/ defending it tense

Medium bombers are the ultimate Attack plane in this game. They really should add more of them. Japan doesn’t even have a bomber

3 Likes
10

The difference between an AI bomber and a bomber you control is the fact that you can use your knowledge and skill to control roughly where your ordnance hits. An AI bombing raid is a call-in you can call in without being absent from the battlefield.

While I do agree with the sentiment that AI bombers are more detrimental than they are helpful, there are other ways to make them more practical to use such as having a separate cooldown.

Your suggestion to up-gun and up-armor planes would force a team to dedicate themselves to fight a specific threat that requires no effort on the part of the one who called in the strike instead of playing the objectives, allowing one side to unilaterally force a commitment against someone for next-to-no effort.

Paratroopers already require about 40 seconds from the time they are selected in the spawn screen to become actually useful to their team. You are also already able to intercept them both before they drop and during the time they land.

Or you could just spawn a regular squad and be instantly useful to your team.

Have you ever considered just piloting a plane yourself, or using a regular artillery strike instead of the bomber call-ins?

Never have I see a thread understand and completely miss the point at the same time.

1 Like
11

The V1 strike was cool in BFV, however it was only doable after enough squad point were earned and only useable by the squad leader. So more than likely it was only used once per game, per squad. Maybe enlisted could balance this by having a longer cooldown than the bombing run? Like a once per match type of length.

One downside to extra call ins is if this incentivizes more players to fly, those pilots are more likely to focus on each other rather than dealing with these new threats. If enemy air is up it’s hard or suicidal to deal with bombers or even drop your own bombs.

But even with that con, I am definitely in favor of new or more powerful call ins. At the least, the bombing run needs a buff.

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The paratroopers are bad enough.
Once the aircraft is attacked, it will be very easy to be forced to jump out.
And the height of the AI’s parachute is too high
So no more nerfing is needed

1 Like
13

I think you need to consider the fact that your not just alone as a para. ussually when I use my para squad I am already doing very high risk with only the slight possibility for reward. usually when my team sucks and cant take the point so I try to make a flanking rally or destroy their rallies. Nerfing para further will remove any tactical use for them.

I guess one can dream … I think it would be fun adding the artillery locations, recon planes and such, but idk, maybe in three years or something …

My point was more that AA is not fun to do, while sneaking up to a tank and killing his serounding teammates is fun. The tank synergizes with the rest of the battle. The planes sadly dont really do this. Also planes are so easy to rotate for a dedicated player that there is little point in even trying to detroy them. Tanks are just more involved with the overal game than planes.

this would partially be a solution, if you force players to only have 2 plane slot max, same with tanks, otherwise you will have vetaran players keeping the slot locked for the rest of the team. It stil would not solve the fact planes are much harder to get into.

My cynical awnser would be that it is a slot for bored veteran players. But thats just the general vibe i get.
Overal I think the point is to recreate a sort of combined arms. It is great that it is there, but is one of the least important parts of the game. I agree they could expand it a bit, but since planes spend their time seperated from the rest it is a bit wastefull to spend all attention there in my personal opinion.

So I wil repeat, you have great ideas (besides the para nerf), but I dont know if the devs should spend their time on that.

14

The point is to give variety to the abilities of the Radio squad so they have many different options to support the team, and each ability has a different role and pros and cons (and in turn gives planes something to do in that they can counter these abilities per suggestion)

  • gun artillery
  • smoke artillery
  • rocket artillery (shouldn’t be locked to just 2 special squads)
  • bombing run
  • supply drop
  • recon plane
  • incendiary bombing run
  • air strike

I just feel plane gameplay should be refined so it truly is a combined arms game where all parts are integral. Infantry, vehicles, air

Exactly that’s the point of pros/ cons for each radio ability. I do think it would have the longest cooldown

And that’s the whole point of my post :grinning: to make planes actually apart of the combined arms

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You haven’t addressed the obvious issue in a pvp game. Please read my post again.

“I want any random radio squad to completely influence the way both teams fight at the drop of a hat, on a whim.”

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Yes but my point is, it is already present, you cant do all types of gameplay justice in a combined arms game, especially in one as arcadey as enlisted. In the end, infantry is wat most players are going to do, so thats were the main focus should be.

My coment about tanks is about the fact tanks are inherently more involved than planes. Even when all upgrades are added, planes will stil not be as involved as tanks.

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I don’t think stronger bombing runs would radically affect the game. They would be better than the current bombers so they feel more worthwhile for the team using, and they’d be less of a joke.

99% of the team aren’t going to be focused on taking them down. It’s still going to be the fighter plane and Engineer’s job to shoot them down. Assaulters and MG don’t have to be bothered because it’s not their job. They still focus on their jobs while the fighter and Engineer focus on theirs.

It would still basically be the same as now except the bombing runs would be slightly better. You’d still deal with them roughly every 15 minutes.

Plus you still have weigh the pros and cons of Bombing runs vs the other call-ins. Even with improved bombing runs they take a long time to reach their targets plus they can be damaged and shot down. Also, even with my suggestion of artillery batteries spawning when artillery is called and there being a short timer before the strike begins, artillery would still be a faster choice to bring down HE (in my mind maybe the timer would be 2 minutes before the strike)

The Radio squad exists for a reason to support the team. That’s why every squad may be able to add a Radio but the Radio squad exists and has access to all the toys. Radio is supposed to support and have a role

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How much 10 20 30 percent stronger ok, but bombing runs should provide few kills and more downs. Bombing runs are not supposed to be a straight up artillery upgrade but a slant one. Taking more time and doing less damage over a greater area. They are also great cause you don’t know how long before they hit. Yes you get the siren but you have minutes wondering if the br was just launched or the siren is about to sound. Often a point has fallen for fear of a br. Now if you had a timer x time counting down then maybe you could buff it. That would be a good trade stronger be for knowing the moment it hits.

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A guy clicks a few buttons to call an airstrike, he goes back to whatever he was doing.

The opposing team now has to commit time and effort countering something a guy just did for a few clicks.

Indeed, now you have to figure out a way to share radio cooldowns between every player who can potentially have a radioman in their roster, the frequency of the strikes while making things fair and balanced for every side.

Except for airstrikes, radiomen in other squads can already call in smoke and ammo drops.

Once again, you are hiding behind “but it’s a support unit” without addressing the obvious imbalance in a pvp game.

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Well yes that’s how the Radio operator works

Then why do planes and AA guns exist in this game. Or even AA vehicles.

If you spawn as a plane it should be to do the job a plane’s gotta do. In fact if you play as a plane you should be happy that the enemy calls in a bombing run so you can do your job

This goes into my whole point that planes are the weakest arm of the game. The majority of players only play ground vehicles

It is true that Radios can be successively called because there is only the personal timer and the cooldown you have to wait while your teammate is calling.

I’d argue this has more to do with the flanderization of Radios. Every squad can have them plus now they have given these miscellaneous Radio ops more abilities that were once only exclusive to Radio squad. Sometimes it feels like what’s the point of having the Radio squad.

I’d almost say they should revert to before. The Radio you put in your squad can call in regular artillery, and the Radio Squad is supposed to have all the abilities.

I’d almost say only the Radio squad should exist and no other squad would have radios. Just like flamethrowers. I’ll say that would be a pipe dream as many players would resist an overhaul

I mean what’s the point of having these squads. Each squad is supposed to have a role.