Machine Pistol Balance Changes (& Tech Tree Unlock Additions!)

[Slakrrrrrr]

I want to start off by mentioning this suggestion builds off of my high-capacity pistols suggestion, and is in the context of the additions made in that post. You can find it here! High Capacity Pistols For All Nations

Machine Pistol Balance Changes

I would like to see a machine pistol option that can be unlocked via the tech tree for each nation, in the same manner that other pistols are currently unlocked. While this is a nice option to increase accessibility, this would mean everyone would use machine pistols on all of their current soldiers, and regular pistols become obsolete in absolution. To prevent this, I would like to make the following changes to machine pistols if they became unlockable:

• Machine Pistols can only be used by the following Soldier Classes:
  APC Driver, Engineer, Radio Operator, Guerilla
• Machine Pistols are limited to BR II and above

Let’s break down the reasoning behind these choices, then I’ll present some options that can be added for each nation!

• APC Drivers max-out at 1 in a squad (APC)
• Most squads can bring 1 or 2 Engineers. The Engineer squad can have up to 6 Engineers, And could use Machine Pistols for limited aggressive play (though 6 machine pistols in a squad that can build AT and AA guns could be too strong, so I can see people not liking this)
• Radio Operators do not have access to backpacks or ammo pouches. Radio Operators are typically limited to 1 soldier on most squads, a Radio Operator Squad can have up to 2 Radio Operators and 2 Engineers (Regular), or 4 Radio Operators and 1 Engineer (Premium). Radio Operator squads would benefit from a weapon option for limited aggressive play.
• Guerillas are already intended for aggressive counter play, and effectively aren’t limited by ammunition. Giving them another weapon option that fits their play style shouldn’t affect balance too much.
• Currently, any player can purchase 6 Yazikov pistols and place them on any soldiers that can’t use SMGs, and effectively create another Assaulter Squad at BR 1 (I am guilty of this, it’s pretty disgusting). While having lower magazine capacity to any SMG option at BR 1, the high rate of fire makes gunfights easy to win. At BR II and higher, machine pistols are less effective relative to the weapons of the respective tiers, and would prevent seal clubbing of new players.

New Machine Pistols for Silver Purchase

USSR: TT-30 Avtomat

5.3 Damage at 10m (1.3 at 100m)
1000 Rounds Per Minute
22 Round Magazine
450 Velocity
0.92 Dispersion
2.0 Second Reload Speed

A experimental machine pistol developed by Tokarev in 1929/1930.

USA: Colt M1911A1E1

6.5 Damage at 10m (4.4 at 100m)
600 Rounds Per Minute
20 Round Magazine
280 Velocity
0.90 Dispersion
2.7 (2.3) Second Reload Speed

A machine pistol variant of the M1911A1 developed by Colt in 1941 as part of the effort to replace the expensive Thompson SMG, which resulted in the adoption of the M3 Grease Gun. The weapon was never adopted.

Commonwealth: MCEM-2

5.5 Damage at 10m (2.8 at 100m)
1000 Rounds Per Minute
18 Round Magazine
370 Velocity
0.90 Dispersion
2.1 Second Reload Speed

An experimental machine pistol developed by Polish engineer Jerzy Podsedkowski in 1944 and 1945. It was not tested until after the war in 1946, and was further developed into the MCEM-6.

Germany: Mauser C96 Mod.712W (Westinger)

5.3 Damage at 10m (1.3 at 100m)
900 Rounds Per Minute
20 Round Magazine
400 Velocity
0.80 Dispersion
2.5 (2.1) Second Reload Speed

This is the current event Mauser C96 Mod.712 in-game. It would be moved to silver purchase status, and be replaced with the Mauser C96 Mod.712N (Nickl), which was an earlier patent automatic Mauser that was manufactured and sold in more limited numbers in 1931. It would be statistically identical to the Mauser C96 Mod.712W:

Japan: Royal MM34

5.3 Damage at 10m (1.3 at 100m)
900 Rounds Per Minute
20 Round Magazine
400 Velocity
0.80 Dispersion
2.5 (2.1) Second Reload Speed

A Mauser copy developed by the Spanish Bestugui Hermanos company. The last one developed by the company in 1934, they were one of the many companies to sell automatic Mauser C96 copies to China prior to Mauser exporting their own Mauser C96 Mod.712 from 1931 onwards. Japanese officers were known to purchase Spanish broomhandle copies for personal use, or capture the weapons from Chinese soldiers within the Sino-Japanese conflict. The weapon would be statistically identical to the Axis’ Mauser C96 Mod.712, but the ribbed barrel certainly matches the Japanese weapon aesthetic (the Astra 903 would also be an option). More info on foreign pistols and ammunition used by Japan can be found in aizenns’ post here: Ideas for Pistols to add to the Japanese army - #4 by aizenns

[EVA_Berlinoid]

Looks great! Love the effort put into this

[IceySmooth]

Personally id push TT variant higher in BR bracketing, maybe BR3+, since they can arguably make almost every class a decent assaulter. Yazikov is very strong even in BR5 for example. And in BR 2 id simply equip them on every rifleman and run around blazing people down - makes for pretty fun meta.

Otherwise wholly support the idea;

[Sampat959]

I kinda like this, I not a big fan of engineers getting it mainly because they have options already and with it on the squad it can get pretty nuts. But I will say maybe instead of engineers we give them to Snipers. mostly because the best way to play snipers is to play them on point taking out reinforcements from longer ranges. The reason why alot of players play snipers from spawn is because they lack push power. I think adding them to snipers will at least make them less braindead

[romario_aguila]

@Slakrrrrrr

A machine pistol variant of the M1911A1 developed by Colt in 1941 as part of the effort to replace the expensive Thompson SMG, which resulted in the adoption of the M3 Grease Gun

EXCUSE ME? REPLACE THE THOMPSON??? I question what Colt was thinking back then😭

[_DELAVR]

For the USSR there is also a submachine gun designed by Shpitalny in 1943, which weighs only 2.01 kg. I think this weapon can be considered an automatic pistol, based on its weight and dimensions.

And also additional photographs of automatic pistols designed by Tokarev.

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[Bkworm07]

Exactly I was “Bruda what?” That is not a proper replacement

[Stein_Grenadier]

@Slakrrrrrr

While this is a nice option to increase accessibility, this would mean everyone would use machine pistols on all of their current soldiers, and regular pistols become obsolete in absolution.

@Slakrrrrrr

Let’s break down the reasoning behind these choices, then I’ll present some options that can be added for each nation!

Instead of assigning them specific classes, you could literally just assign a high BR to these pistol carbines.

Attempting to rationalize which class gets what pistol according to some vague metric is arbitrary when we already have an existing BR system that can be utilized to limit where these pistols can be found. Older pistols will just be low tier pistols. These pistols will remain exclusive to high BRs.

Giving classes that otherwise do not have access to automatic weapons at an early BR would just make their sidearms their primary weapons.

[Slakrrrrrr]

That’s exactly the point. I’d still like normal pistols to be the regular sidearm for most soldiers, with a general minority at most BRs to be able to use machine pistols. If there was only a limit to BR, then every soldier at every accessible BR would use a machine pistol.

[Slakrrrrrr]

The Thompson was (as Ian McCollum categorizes it) a 1st generation SMG. It was heavy, complex to manufacture, expensive to manufacture, and required modernizations (in the form of Savage’s M1 and M1A1 Thompsons) to become an acceptable option for the U.S. Military. They were looking for something that was simpler and cheaper to manufacture to replace it (general characteristics of “2nd generation SMGs” such as the Sten, MP.40, PPS-43 etc), which is why weapons like the M3 Grease Gun (which was adopted), M2 Hyde, T2 Thompson, and of course a fully automatic Colt M1911 carbine were all considered for such a role.

[Stein_Grenadier]

@Slakrrrrrr

I’d still like normal pistols to be the regular sidearm for most soldiers

@Slakrrrrrr

If there was only a limit to BR, then every soldier at every accessible BR would use a machine pistol.

How do you reconcile these two conflicting statements?

Why bother restricting what class can use it when you can literally just assign a higher BR to automatic pistols the same way soldiers can have a low BR and high BR loadout for their primary weapons?

[Slakrrrrrr]

They’re conflicting statements because the first is what I am asking for, the second one is what would result from what you are asking for. If you only want people to use machine pistols above BR I, you’re entitled to your preferences. I personally, do not, so I wanted to find a way to include machine pistols for purchase with silver to increase accessibility, but not make them the only viable sidearm option for all soldiers in all scenarios. Fortunately, high-capacity sidearms could be used on all of the other soldiers.

[MR_87]

Pistol like these can just consider as main weapon.
How can you fit these thing into your pistol holster? People irl will won’t carry more weapon if they have
bring these “pistol”.

[CaptainSebekel]

@MR_87

How can you fit these thing into your pistol holster?

Like they can with the Artillery Luger I guess.