M1918A1-A2 needs a buff, and the Soviet SMG needs a nerf

[Nato_Pig_BE]

@Josephs_Piano

The idea that the PPSh is a “laser beam” at any range is ludicrous - the bloody thing struggles to get “red cross” hits at ranges of the length of the hallways in the Berlin train station

i do it with ppd 40 picked up on the ground with random troopers. (no 40% lower recoil while standing bonus perk on my troopers)

@Josephs_Piano

t is increasingly useless at any greater range than across a street - like all SMG’s.

it should be but not ingame

[Nato_Pig_BE]

you’re welcome

@70458067

At 4:52 he makes the comment that it has very low recoil …

He is right the recoil is low even in full auto. the gun itself is surprisingly accurate in semi-auto up to 35m. dispersion does not come into play here with this shooting mode.

@70458067

At at long range he also makes the comment that he feels like he can hit pretty reliably out to 100 meters.
So how is this different than what you see in game?

Yes you can hit but still in semi-auto not in full spray like ingame where there is no dispersion at all with shots in semi

I’m ok with this gun easily and with precision spray and kill me at point blank and short range up to 35m
But not at 100m in full auto like it can be done ingame

ps: i’m 100% for the more realistic things possible ingame but for everyones not mother russia excluded cause? (I will self-censor for this one)
Mg nerf don’t disturb me

Like i said nothing will change about this subject.

[TUSUPOLISI69]

@73626587

Funny that you mentioned it, the Germans loved to capture PPSH-41s and even went far enough to covert them to 9mm and creating a manual for it in German, the Soviets also used capture MP-40/38 s, O Guess that for most people the grass is greener at the other side.

Everyone used captured weapons.
Germans probably also liked icecream, doesnt change the fact that PPD aint what it was realisticly.

@73626587

Fun fact: people that know how to handle a fully automatic weapon won’t get massive muzzle climbing with automatic weapons.

Thats PPSh made 1955 on the video, entirely different gun than PPD or even the war production ppsh.
Top of that PPSh has a “compensator”, PPD doesnt. Irony is that the compensator increased the shotgrouping nearly 60% compared to PPD, but due to compensator the muzzleflash itself pretty much blocked entirely your vision thru sights, which also aint in the game.

@73626587

If you look at gun fails, you will see thatmany times people go as far as getting hurt just because they don’t know how to control their gun. So you can claim that a shotgun will throw you to the ground or firing it, but that isn’t a realistic depiction of the weapon capabilities.

Ps. If you don’t control it the PPD rises quite a bit

That is absolutely true and im sorry. I completely forgot USSR had professional military and definitely not army that just drafted everyone who could hold a weapon and thought the top of the engineering was outhouse.
Top of that USSR also had extremely long history with SMGs, not like they started the mass production of SMGs during / after winterwar.

[SK4M3R]

@TUSUPOLISI69

Thats PPSh made 1955 on the video, entirely different gun than PPD or even the war production ppsh.

for you to know, the PPSH-41 is a simplified version of the PPD, made to reduce production costs, and Soviet compensators of the era were not good enough to make a massive difference (as the AVS and AVT prove), certainly not to justify the magic nerf you want.

[SK4M3R]

@TUSUPOLISI69

That is absolutely true and im sorry. I completely forgot USSR had professional military and definitely not army that just drafted everyone who could hold a weapon and thought the top of the engineering was outhouse.

???, I am sorry but in Berlin all Germans should be 13 year old kids that could bearly hold a rifle, and had issues reloading it in a combat situation. Is that where this is going?, Should now everyone be unable to use anything because in one way or the other they are going to be characterized as unprofessional emergency recruits?.

[TUSUPOLISI69]

@73626587

for you to know, the PPSH-41 is a simplified version of the PPD, made to reduce production costs, and Soviet compensators of the era were not good enough to make a massive difference (as the AVS and AVT prove), certainly not to justify the magic nerf you want.

Yeah, they share the drum magazine, if thats your idea of simplified version then OK.

about 60% of increase in shot grouping isnt significant ? OK.

comparing automatic rifle to smg ? Please.

@73626587

???, I am sorry but in Berlin all Germans should be 13 year old kids that could bearly hold a rifle, and had issues reloading it in a combat situation. Is that where this is going?, Should now everyone be unable to use anything because in one way or the other they are going to be characterized as unprofessional emergency recruits?.

Given the guns germans have in berlin campaign might as well be 90yr olds in wheelchair. Dont exactly make any differency.
Besides it was you who brought the “experienced gun handler” in conversation and frequently mention about realistic values, I pointed out what the USSR army had.

[SK4M3R]

@TUSUPOLISI69

Yeah, they share the drum magazine, if thats your idea of simplified version then OK.

about 60% of increase in shot grouping isnt significant ? OK.

- YouTube

There you go a PPD been fired by someone that knows how to control it. BTW you do get that sway in game.

[TUSUPOLISI69]

1:21 at slowmotion, 2nd 3rd round already far above the target. Assuming hes shooting beyond 2m.
And at no point did he fire with full auto which is beyond controllable, which definitely aint the case in the game.
But good video tho, proves quite well that PPD should have alot more muzzle climb even on burst firing.

[SK4M3R]

He only fired in full auto, you mean he didn’t mag dump the dam thing. And the gun didn’t climb nearly as much.

[TUSUPOLISI69]

Yeah, not much. Just about the widh of the barrelshroud, do the math where the 2nd & 3rd round went.
Or perhaps you can find the said PPD being shot at target ? Just to prove your point it definitely doesnt have a relatively massive muzzle climb and is actually accurated as you claim.

So, as even your experienced shooter had trouble with muzzle climb with burst firing, we can conclude the ppd should definitely be totally out of control on full auto.
Which it isnt.

[Ratardo]

@114512973

MG was nerfed. SO,
Similarly, is there any reason not to nerf PPD and PPSH?

Also soviet lmg’s was nerfed so whats logic here?
Or you mean devs should revert lmg nerf to soviets and nerf smg’s instead?

Or you mean situatin like: nerf ALL pistols, cause soviets pistols got nerfed axis semiauto rifles must be nerfed(leaving soviets like they are)… this is how i understand your ‘logic’ here

[TUSUPOLISI69]

@24629012

Also soviet lmg’s was nerfed so whats logic here?
Or you mean devs should revert lmg nerf to soviets and nerf smg’s instead?

For example soviets in moscow already had extremely shit LMGs, making them just double shit doesnt make any differency to them as any sane person still uses the PPD / Rifle combo which they used before the LMG nerf.

@24629012

Or you mean situatin like: nerf ALL pistols, cause soviets pistols got nerfed axis semiauto rifles must be nerfed(leaving soviets like they are)… this is how i understand your ‘logic’ here

Well germans best weapons by far were the LMG’s so this nerf hit them hardest.
Technically yes, probably every german player would agree on to nerf SMG’s to complete oblivion if the LMG nerf was reverted. Obviously as germans had already worse SMG’s than soviets it wouldnt affect them so much. But soviets whos best weapons indeed are SMG’s would suffer alot as theyr LMG’s would still be just shit even if the nerf was reverted.

And just to point out this isnt exactly first time the soviet smg / german smg comparison has been subject it was a thing long before the lmg nerfs.
Back then the imbalance between these 2 smg’s were justified by the fact that german LMG’s were on par at CQC or even better than soviet smg’s and it was considered as asymmetrical balance as soviets had superior smg’s & germans had by far better LMG’s.
And now suddenly as the LMG’s received the nerf things should be considered as red vs blue balance.

[CombatBoilerman]

First of all, it seems that you need to reach level 26 of the German Army in Berlin. Then you will be able to have an objective view.

obviously I reached level 26 with the Soviet & German forces in Berlin.

My conclusion is drawn after experiencing both camps.

=======
Here are the specs of the German submachine gun you mentioned.

mp3008 //level 3

5.7

10m 5.7
100m 3.3
150m 2.8
200m 2.7
300m 2.5

420- 520

vertical recoil 16
horizontal recoil 7

===

mp40 //level 3

5.7

10m 5.7
100m 3.3
150m 2.8
200m 2.7
300m 2.5

520-570

vertical recoil 17
horizontal recoil 9

===

ppsh(drum) //lv 3

5.5

10 5.5
100 2.8
150 2.6
200 2.4
300 2.3

910- 1000

vertical recoil 14
horizontal recoil 6

71r

ppd // lv2

5.5

10 5.5
100 2.8
150 2.6
200 2.4
300 2.3

820- 900

vertical recoil 15
horizontal recoil 8

I don’t know what the middle distance you’re meaning
I guess the distance is between 100m and 150m.

At 100m, the damage per German bullet is 3.3.
And the Soviets are 2.8
I cant see any noticeable difference.

Recoil doesn’t mean much, ppsh is the least.
The biggest one is mp40.

The rate of fire of the Soviet submachine gun is overwhelmingly high. In particular, ppsh has a higher rate of fire than mg.

So! We checked the specs.

Although a slight difference, the German smg was
Damage was little higher

But recoil (like damage, it doesn’t mean much)
, The rate of fire was higher for the Soviet smg.
and
don’t forget Soviet submachine guns have a 71 round magazine
That’s twice the size of a German submachine gun.

You said range damage
At 300m, the damage difference between the two is only 0.2.
As the distance increases, the damage of the two submachine guns does not show much difference.

The further away the target, the weaker the submachine gun.
ㅡThe fact is that it is characteristic of submachine guns.
It’s not just a problem with ppsh or ppd
mp is also weak…

If you check this spec
You find that you overestimated the German submachine gun.
It’s very subjective.

rather than mp
At intermediate distances, ppsh and ppd are
Low recoil and fast rate of fire make it easy to kill Germans.

In particular, ppsh and ppd shine even more when killing a moving target or firing a suppression shot.
Compared to this, the suppression shot of the mp40 is meaningless.

Truly You can kill enemies in an instant with bullets that are pouring out at a staggering speed.

Your logic only seems to be overestimating the German submachine gun for fear that ppsh will get nerfed. However, that does not change the fact that the Soviet army is overly powerful.

[CombatBoilerman]

No, you wouldn’t want it, but Users playing German Army in Berlin will. And it makes sense to do so. The only good gun against the Soviet SMG is the MG.

but The devs nerfed the mg. The development team must take measures for equity among users.

This problem is exacerbated especially when Germany is an attacking team or playing conquest mode. Because you run into enemies on the way to the point.

There is no dispute about the fact that MG was nerfed for realism. but in a situation where the weapons of the Soviet Army are already in excellent condition,

such measures will only lead to a breakdown of the balance Without the nerf of the Soviet smg I prefer ppsh, but A nerf is definitely something to do

[CombatBoilerman]

When considering only infantry weapons

I don’t think the American infantry is in a completely unreasonable fight but still US infantry weapons are weaker to German infantry weapons.

The specs of the fg42 are not much different from the m1918a2
Of course the ammo is very low.
and The recoil is higher than the a2 a1.
but If you shoot while controlling, that’s fine.

The problem starts here.
The fg42, which has similar specifications to the bar, is available except for machine gunners.
You can give it to all soldiers.
Think of US engineers, bombers and troopers armed with m1918a2

And the MG can fire 30 more shots than the bar of the US Army.

Thompson is a decent gun
The Germans in Normandy also have more decent submachine guns.
Besides, Thompson is a submachine gun that appears at level 29, so it takes a long time.

If you think the US military is not at a disadvantage in battles involving tanks and aircrafts, I would agree.

but If you think the US weapons are good enough for infantry battle against the Germans
You are completely mistaken.

If you still think so, you’re just in luck
If your squad is completely wiped out by mg and fg, you’ll probably change your mind by then.

[CombatBoilerman]

The mg is a almost only weapon that can be used against ppsh and ppd.

But the devs nerfed MG
So the Soviet smg should also be nerfed for equity
Am I saying something wrong?

Conversely, imagine that only Soviet submachine guns were nerfed.
Can you not complain?

[Josephs_Piano]

Any weapon can be “used againt ppsh and ppd” - it dosn’t make the troops carrying them immune ot rifle or even knives ffs!!

The LMG’s were massively better than SMG’s at CQC - now they are just a little bit better - they sure as heck are not useless as some cry-babies seem to think.

[Rickyd123]

mid distance would be around 50 meters for smgs as 100+ meters is usually considered long ranges

[TUSUPOLISI69]

@Josephs_Piano

Any weapon can be “used againt ppsh and ppd” - it dosn’t make the troops carrying them immune ot rifle or even knives ffs!!

So whats your problem with balancing them ? After all you have your knive that can do the job too.

@Josephs_Piano

The LMG’s were massively better than SMG’s at CQC - now they are just a little bit better - they sure as heck are not useless as some cry-babies seem to think.

No they werent and all weapons could kill LMG even the knive as you said.
So the nerf was unnecessary and done to please crybabies like you.

[Josephs_Piano]

LMG’s and SMG are balanced now - so there’s no need to balance htem any more - no issue

lol - find me a post of mine where I complained about LMG’s?

I’ll wait…