Italian Research Tree 🇮🇹

[olek_z17]

@CapitanRastrero

Theres an actual better Breda Mod.30, its the Mod.30 chambered in 7.35

OK, I read more and I think it is a good idea to implement it in Tier III. That way the Terni LMG could remain in the premium section as there would be an Italian Tier III LMG in the tech tree.

@CapitanRastrero

Only one L3/CV33(38) and its a premium?!

I believe that we should have Rider II squads with tankettes (or MG armed light tanks for the nations without tankettes). That way nations famous for using tankettes, namely Italy and (in the future) Poland, would be better represented.

@CapitanRastrero

The Pavesi M42 has to be implemented into the regular research line, its the only Italian Semi Auto chambered in 8mm Breda and IDK about putting the strongest rifle behind a paywall/timed event.

I’m not sure if the Pavesi is that powerful. I do have it and I don’t feel that much difference in damage when compared to regular semi auto rifles (Gew 41, SVT-40 and so on). Where I do feel a difference is the magazine capacity, which is why I believe that the Beretta Mod. 37 would be better. I’ve checked the parameters of the 7.35mm Carcano and its muzzle energy is quite close to the 7.7mm Arisaka, so the damage of the Mod. 37 would be similar to that of the Type 4 rifle (12.4 stock and 14.9 upgraded). And I believe that 9 rounds of 7.35mm Carcano is better than 6 rounds of 8mm Breda.

@CapitanRastrero

The P.43 issue is a funny one. Its a double standard that Japan can have their paper tank but Italy cant because…? It feels like BS.

It’s not a double standard for me - I believe that the Ho-Ri should never come into the game as Japan doesn’t need Tier V. The Tokyo Arsenal SMG is already a big stretch for me.

@Overlander57

Are they going to have their own que in the matchmaker and fight only in Tunisia and Stalingrad?

Yes, they should. And they also should get Italian maps (Liberation of Italy) when the Italian tech tree is separated.

@Overlander57

How is this better then just adding more Italian weapons and squads to the German campaign?

Because it would remove Italians from campaigns they never participated in - playing as Italians in Normandy is exactly the same as playing Soviets in Tunisia.

@Heakler_CZ

Here, I differ a bit from my colleague @olek_z17. While Olek is more in favor of integrating German weapons and technology, I would give more preference to purely Italian production. Primarily to make the Italian tree as unique as possible. Also, to prevent critics from complaining that it’s just a “copy-paste” tree. In my opinion, the Italian tree could be filled mostly with Italian weapons and technology, with German weapons potentially becoming premium items. At that point, it’s a tree that really has something unique to offer.

Just to clarify here, my hierarchy when it comes to adding weapons and vehicles goes as follows:
production equipment > prototype equipment > copy-paste equipment > “paper” equipment

If I’m able to find some more info on the Scotti Mod. 37 for example (fire rate, magazine capacity, caliber and so on), I’d be all for replacing the MG 42 with it. I’m already convinced to make some changes in my suggestion, so I’ll probably post it soon:)

[CapitanRastrero]

I’ve noticed that there are no suggestions on this thread for replacing the German emplaced weapons for Italian designs. I will list some suggestions.

Machinegun Nest:
Suggestion #1 Breda Mod.37

Feed: 20rnd Strip
Caliber: 8x59mm Breda
RoF: 460rpm

Suggestion #2 Fiat-Revelli Mod.35

Feed: Belt
Caliber 8x59mm Breda
RoF: 600rpm

Heavy Machinegun:
Suggestion #1 Breda Mod. 31

Air cooled with AA sights

Water cooled

Feed: 30rnd Magazine
Caliber: 13.2x99mm
RoF: 500rpm

Suggestion #2 Breda SAFAT (I dont like this one because it would be OP like the MG131 the germans get and it’s primarily an aircraft weapon as well)

Feed: Belt
Caliber: 12.7x81mm SR
RoF: 700rpm

Anti-Air Gun

Breda 20/65 Mod.35

Feed: 12rnd Strip (This is obviously less than the other AA cannons in the game, to offset this I would suggest that it should come with more ammunition in reserve by default)
Caliber: 20x138mm B
RoF: 500rpm

Anti-Tank Gun
Ansaldo 75/32 Mod.37

Feed: Breach Loaded
Caliber: 75x334mm R
Ammunition types: HE, AP, EP(Oops we made HESH) , EPS(HEAT)

[Heakler_CZ]

That’s true, we haven’t really discussed this much yet.

@CapitanRastrero

Suggestion #2 Fiat-Revelli Mod.35

I would definitely go for the Fiat-Revelli Mod 35 here. After all, a magazine with only 20 rounds would be a bit insufficient for this type of weapon.

@CapitanRastrero

Suggestion #2 Breda SAFAT

Kind of the same reasoning. It will be a powerful weapon, but hey, Italians need strong weapons.

@CapitanRastrero

Ansaldo 75/32 Mod.37

I didn’t even know about this anti-tank cannon, or I somehow overlooked it. Definitely an ideal anti-tank gun for Italian engineers!

[CapitanRastrero]

@Heakler_CZ

I would definitely go for the Fiat-Revelli Mod 35 here. After all, a magazine with only 20 rounds would be a bit insufficient for this type of weapon.

To be fair the Japanese Type 92 is also fed by 20rnd Strips but this feed systems allows for techniques that allow continuos fire by timing the insertion of the feed strips just right. Effectively in game the Breda Mod.37 would behave just like the Type 92 meaning that they are effectively fed by an invisible infinate feed strip.

[Wieloglow]

Will the Italy be a separate army, or players with German and Italian armies can play together in one team (“United Axis Army”) ?

[Myrm1don]

I like the thinking here.

Hoping this stuff shows up

[Heakler_CZ]

@Wieloglow

Will the Italy be a separate army, or players with German and Italian armies can play together in one team (“United Axis Army”) ?

In my opinion, the Matchmaking should have a soft rule that aims to create predominantly single-nationality battles if there are enough players available. So, when there is an excess of Italians at BR 1-2 waiting for a battle, the system will match them against the British, forming a purely Italian team. And if there are fewer players waiting for a battle, the Matchmaking will pair German and Italian players together in a joint battle, creating the “United Axis Army”. I would envision the same approach for the Allies.

[Heakler_CZ]

@CapitanRastrero

To be fair the Japanese Type 92 is also fed by 20rnd Strips but this feed systems allows for techniques that allow continuos fire by timing the insertion of the feed strips just right. Effectively in game the Breda Mod.37 would behave just like the Type 92 meaning that they are effectively fed by an invisible infinate feed strip.

That’s actually true, I forgot that the game bypasses the ammo rack system for towed machine guns. Well, in that case, it would depend on whether the developers would lean more towards the “Japanese” or “German” route. Or theoretically, the Breda Mod. 31 could be used for BR 1-2 and the Breda SAFAT for BR 3-4. Which might be ideal in my opinion.

[CapitanRastrero]

This is WAY off topic, but, I was discussing with a friend of mine and we also came up with this idea. I would personally love it if higher rank engineers would be able to build better fortifications and emplace more lethal weapons. Like for example engineer 1 and 2 can build single barrel AA guns but engineer 3 and 4 can build Double, Triple and Quad barrel AA guns. Another example, engineer 1 and 2 build Medium caliber AT guns, Engineer 3 and 4 Build Large caliber AT Guns. Using the Italians as an example:

Multi Barrel AA gun (Engi 3&4): Breda 20/65 Afusto Binato Double 20mm
(its a naval mount but hey…)

Heavy AT Gun (Engi 3&4): Ansaldo Cannone da 90/53 90mm

I dont know if I would extend the same benefit to HMGs and MMGs because not every nation has two plausible designs. I know germany has the MG18 PuF and the MG131 for HMGs but what would they have for MMGs? MG34 and 42? practically the same. Every other nation except Italy would not be able to provide two designs of MMG and HMG.