Look at this answer, the m82 is not capable of easily penetrating the Panther, while the t33 is
Shell performance in this game are idetical to what they are in War Thunder anyway, and that’s not gonna change.
Getting the T33 in this context would be a straight downgrade from the M82, so unless you what to nerf the Pershing in Enlisted, I will gladly take the M82.
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I already made a bug report on non capped AP(BC) shells being calculating incorrectly, it was acknowledged only just recently though
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/hLPH8HLThguu
After T33 APBC is fixed…
It will penetrate roughly
96-97mm @ 0m at 55 °
79mm @ 0m at 60 °
In WT and Enlisted though it would currently only have 67mm @ 0m at 60 °
Which means that if T33 APBC was copy and pasted from WT to Enlisted it would be missing 18% of its sloped penetration
96.5mm (55) - 18% = 79mm (55)
Panther UFP is 80mm thick at 55 degrees
Then there is also that big fat BS RNG auto bounce mechanic which dictates that apparently full caliber shells have 50% chance of bounce at 60 degrees which is utterly non sensical
:::
T43 APBC on Super Pershing is identical to T33 APBC but it has 975m/s muzzle velocity instead of just 853m/s
Correctly performing T43 APBC
114mm @ 0m at 55 °
94mm @ 0m at 60 °
Considering how the Tiger II hull and turret side armour is 80mm thick, they would have to be extra careful how their turret and hull is angled cuz when at 60 ° impact angle, this fixed T43 APBC would still penetrate them and it still has enough penetration to defeat Tiger II turret front.
90mm T43 APBC is 10.91kg shell with 10.61kg penetrator + 0.3kg windshield.
Kinetic Energy
0.5 x 10.61 x 975 x 975
Thats 5,043,066 Joules of Kinetic Energy
88mm PzGr.39 APCBC is 10.2kg shell with;
0.293kg windshield
0.059kg HE filler
0.585-0.820kg Cap
So a penetrator weight somewhere in between 9.03kg and 9.263kg
That’s Kinetic Energy between 4,515,000 Joules and 4,631,500 Joules
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Except the Panther Upper Plate armour they tested the T33 APBC against was high quality
The armour had ductility so it was of high quality
Furthermore, if the armour was crap, then why did the M82 APCBC fail even at point blank range when T33 APBC could at 1100 yards? The evidence is plain and simple. The T33 APBC was superior to M82 APCBC, it’s not this BS crap we see in WT where M82 outclasses T33 in every single aspect.
:::
Here is Panther being tested vs 17 Pounder APCBC
We see no ductility, just brittleness and cracking
If 17 Pdr APCBC made bad Panther armour quality crack this bad… surely the 90mm M82 APCBC would of caused a greater havoc
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90mm M82 APC(BC)
2.8inch @ 0m at 55 ° — 2800ft/s
(71mm @ 0m at 55 ° — 853m/s)
Panther UFP = 80mm at 55 °
:::
90mm T33 AP(BC)
3.8inch @ 0m at 55 ° — 2800ft/s
(96.5mm @ 0m at 55 ° — 853m/s)
Panther UFP = 80mm at 55 °
:::
AP slope modifiers from WWII Ballistics: Armour and Gunnery
T/D ratio = 1.072
(96.5mm thick steel / 90mm shell diameter)
At 55 ° = 2.184 Slope Modifier
96.5mm at 55 ° = 210-211mm at 0 °
(96.5mm x 2.184 slope modifier)
T33 APBC has 210-211mm penetration at 0 ° before it deforms against flat thick armour due to lack of piercing cap and it deforms worse than M77 AP because it was reheat treated M77 AP with ballistic cap attached to it.
:::
M82 APCBC is rated to defeat 6.75inch (171mm) @ 0m at 0 °
It has 217mm long penetrator and penetrator is further reduced by the large HE filler cavity
T33 APBC can penetrate 210-211mm @ 0m at 0 ° before the shell deforms against flat thick armour due to lack of piercing cap but it shouldn’t be surprising that it’s better than M82 APCBC
It features bigger penetrator with length of 250mm and has no HE filler that reduces the penetrator size like it does on M82 APCBC.
The T33 APBC with bigger penetrator and thus greater kinetic energy achieved 210-211mm penetration (165mm post deformation) at 0 ° compared to 171mm penetration of M82 APCBC with smaller penetrator.
According to the British… their 2 Pounder AP, 40mm round, 1.08kg penetrator at 2600ft/s (792m/s) could penetrate 90mm of Armour at 0 °
If we use 90mm T33 APBC as reference being able to penetrate 210-211mm at 0 ° (Pre-Deformation penetration) to calculate 2 pounder AP penetration using Jacob Demarre equation, we get 88-89mm at 0 ° for 2 Pounder AP.
UK steel was probably slightly bit lower BHN than US test steel as well.
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Thank you, my friend. It feels good to be recognized
Bored of the Post-War Tank Spreadsheet Battles.
Just go play War Thunder lol
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while this is true, remember we are getting WT equivalent stats hence my preference
So they’ve acknowledged the problem and are going to change it？
Looks like it
Well, let’s hope they change, because it gives Pershing a chance to strengthen
It’s just just Pershing AP(BC) but all AP/APBC shells in Enlisted and WT are equally underperforming. Chi-Nu after fix will be able to penetrate Sherman which it can’t currently just like Pershing can’t upper plate the panther right now
Actually, I was hoping that enlisted would issue Sherman an m61 apcbc…
But I’ve read that chi-nu’s armor-piercing rounds are not very satisfactory
The Chi-Nu had 2 different primary AP rounds
• Type 1 AP
• Type 1 Tokko Kou AP (Tungsten-Nickel-Chromium)
::::
Type 1 AP (6.56kg at 668m/s)
Penetration:
97mm @ 0m at 0 °
60mm @ 0m at 55 °
50mm @ 0m at 60 °
Type 1 Tokko Kou AP (6.615kg at 683m/s)
Penetration:
118mm @ 0m at 0 °
63mm @ 0m at 55 °
52mm @ 0m at 60 °
:::
M4 Sherman / Early
Hull: 50.8mm at 56 °
M4 Sherman / Late
Hull: 63.5mm at 47 °
——
Chi-Nu shooting the improved Nickel Chromium AP round could defeat 50.8mm at 56 ° hull armour of M4 Sherman up to 600 meters.
Currently the m82 performs better but the op is suggesting buffing the t33 so it is capable of penetrating the upper plate of the hull at long ranges.
Then there’s the Type 4 Chi-To
It’s Type 5 75mm gun could shoot…
Type 1 AP
Toku Kou AP
:::
Type 1 AP (6.56kg at 830m/s)
Penetration:
134mm @ 0m at 0
80mm @ 0m at 55
66mm @ 0m at 60
Toku Kou AP (6.615kg at 850m/s)
Penetration:
161mm @ 0m at 0 °
83mm @ 0m at 55 °
68mm @ 0m at 60 °
According to the results of the test suit, they still gave the m82, the m304 performance is still disastrous
Let’s just say that the production crew is still deaf, and they only do what they imagine