Hot take: rally points are OP

Mess Room
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Probably an event or something without the ability to build rally points/spawn on APCs or limiting them would be an interesting experiment.

Currently RPs are the meta, the bread and butter of the game.

I feel like most of the time the gameplay in Enlisted boils down to “build a rally - hunt for an enemy rally - scold your teammates to build more rallies”.

The gunplay, the maps, the skill all gives way to the rally rush.

Whenever there’s a competent stack/team who always build 2-3 rallies against an “average” team, that’s mostly a 6 minute pubstomp match.

And I’ve been both on the receiving and giving ends of this.

Sometimes those matches end with top players having 10 kills and 0 deaths just because there was no one to kill, the snowball was too fast.

Spawning three 9-man squads at the same time and rushing the point is night and day compared to the “casual” team’s manpower on the objective.

I recently played BF1 and BFV again and the contrast in pure game pacing is noticeable.

The only “rally points” are accessible to the scout class in BFV and only that squad (5 players out of 32) can spawn on it.

Both teams there need to run approximately equal distances to the objective so it always feels like a more equal fight.

You don’t get situations where an experienced defending team spams infinite reinforcements into the point, while the attackers keep coming one squad at a time.

TLDR: I know rally points are an essential part of Enlisted at this point but they just might be too impactful for fair and balanced games.

Should they maybe spawn slower?

Or be limited to just the squad that built them?

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Rally is the meta but it may be to late to change them. APC’s are a breath of fresh air so there may be room for change in the future.

You may remember when they changed the rallies before - small change of minimal distance to cap, from 40m to 60m, surely this will just slow down gameplay a bit, nothing can go wrong.
Shitshow ensued, maps were balanced for 40m rallies, on some maps they were impossible to build in meaningfull places. People running like crazy to both flanks just to try place it anywhere.

So this change was quickly rolled back.

It will be really hard to balance without angering most players, maybe better route would be adding some alternatives first, like APC were great start, maybe adding paratroopers to tech tree.

Also i maybe wouldn’t mind nerf to rallies so much if we could just order bots in our squads to build them. Then more people would have them on map so changes could be made

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Nerf rally points and engineers
Rally point bias sucks

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I think the biggest issues with Rallies in general are, that they naturally make full auto guns meta - because they cause all maps and gamemodes to be close quarter games.

50 Meters is simply too close to objectives, rallies distance should be increased to 100 Meters.

Also, this “snowball effect” that you talk about is also caused by rallies in a different way - you kind of need long to build them, so if too many defenders build rallies right at the start of a new objective, chances are that the attackers captured it before the defender even arrive if the attackers skip building rallies themselves - this was specifically apparent when coordinated Paratrooper drops were still totally broken.

Rallies gameplay is absolutely a core element of the game, but should non the less be in future focus of the devs, they deserve changes.

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I 100% agree. I was saying the same thing for quite some time already.

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Hehe just for you we should also disable paratrooper drops for this event as well : P

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I wouldn’t mind it. I don’t even use them in majority of my presets. xD

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Anymore* because the drops indeed suck nowadays.

I still say Paratroopers need a rework, but that’s a different topic I guess.

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This is also very true.

As well as cap zones being tiny (1 building).

The game boils down to spamming meat waves of full auto soldiers to the barn.

And the team that has more frequent/closer spawning capability – wins.

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Personally I actually like the meatgrinder gameplay, but technically it can get rather boring and toxic quickly.

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Thats why I’m saying an event/game mode/experiment without the rally meta could be an interesting study.

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so if we do get event with no rally and apc then it would be like how one sided match are isnt it? since if the enemy are more skill then you automatically lose (cause without rally you most likely wont get on the point in time)

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Include them in research.

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Not exactly.

E.g. 10 squads spawn at their base vs 10 squads spawn at their base, and each squad wiped needs to spawn at the base again, instead of team A having 3 rally points next to the objective with no spawn delay and the team B running from the base.

It would be more about gunfights and positioning, rather than bots being delivered to the objective by the team with the most rallies.

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I think the easiest thing would be simply to restrict the amount of spawns from the current 20 to 10 or so.

Not that i think this is a major issue, but anything else is too complicated

And increase the sound, detection radius to make them easier to find. And extend the range on which they get blocked by enemies - esp. apcs desperately need it.

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This is the experience in the higher tier games, but not as much in the lower tier. It’s far easier to stay on top of enemy rallies and there’s a real impact when the enemy has them and your side does not or vice versa -and it happens that way in far more many matches. A lot fewer engineers and a lot fewer people who have APCs in the lower tiers.

The game is currently designed as a CQC game. And, for many people, the drudge of running several hundred meters to the front is an annoyance at the very least, a frustrating waste of time at most. Particularly since you can get much of your squad shot out from under you on the way there.

Another possibility (now that I’m thinking about it) is determining or changing what squad types can be spawned at rallies or APCs. I do not want my assaulters/machine gunners/rifleman being picked apart running from the back.

One of THE most interesting things about this game is the fact that there’s an entire squad you have with you, which wildly reduces that time being wasted in just RUNNING in this game. In basically every other game, you take a shot to the head, you are back to running again. YUCK.

I don’t think anything that adds RUNNING to the game is going to be popular.

Side note: map making in this game also currently encourages CQC - another solution would be adding additional types of maps which are designed to be less CQC. My initial take, though, would seem like it would be turning the game into some type of trench warfare thing so as to avoid being constantly sniped.

Another interesting bit would be - in other games, vehicles become far more important as they can be used to rush troops to the front. Right now, there’s very little use of them b/c the concept of the game is less “rushing to the front” and more CQC from the get-go. Again, I’d say, add new things to the game as different metas as opposed to changing the current one.

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It’s fun until you are forced to fight over some open objective.
Or objective like the pier one in Pacific.

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I think moving the default spawns ~50-75m closer to the objective could reduce the running, and give the team with less rallies a better fighting chance.

In other words, the weaker team wouldn’t be at an enormous disadvantage when it has 0 rallies and the enemies have 3 all around the objective.

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But that would put the tanks closer to the front as well. I don’t totally object to this, since I’m the type to bring a tank up to 50M behind or even up to and sometimes beyond the objective, but it sure may give the gray zone campers a fit.

It also mean tanks would get back to the front sooner and potentially have an even more devastating effect. And it’d still likely mean map changes.

And also, you mentioned two problems with rallies - one where there were too many and one where there were too few, thus an imbalance - but your solution would change the fundamental and strategic point of rallies to a great degree.

Just now thinking of this differently - that would also lessen the impact of support players and emphasize the impact of twitchy players who wouldn’t need to spawn on spots that give points to support players.

As much as we are all (I think) frustrated when we don’t have enough rallies, it’s a pretty unique gameplay in my experience. Where they can be put in hidden places, where there are struggles to take them out, the fact that they are completely random and can pop up wherever - they make the battlefield wildly more dynamic than they would be w/out them or if they had reduced effect.

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I think a war-themed team PVP game should contain many gaps in terrain and equipment that need to be resolved by players and their team through their own efforts and thinking.
If he becomes imbecile and boring he will just become one of the other commercial fast food products.

We should not protect the side with more selfish and incompetent groups.
Those bad groups should be punished or quarantined
to ensure that conscientious groups are not harmed