"Historical Custom Game Based on Mathematical Model of Deployment Spawn Scoring Mechanics"

For historicism games. In fact, most games on the market can’t do this. They all have a lot of non-realistic elements.

Most of Enlisted’s competitors have better advantages in the diversity of game scenes and player communication and cooperation.

These aspects are currently the shortcomings of Enlisted. While the devs have tried to improve in this area, I think that what the devs were trying to achieve has failed in arcade mode for a number of reasons.

I am not a player who requires the game to be completely realistic, but I think that for a historic battle that can attract players, the diversity of game choices, the richness of game tactics, and the communication and cooperation between players are crucial.

This proposal is mainly about [diversity of game choices] and [richness of game tactics]

For this, it is very important to construct a dynamic and diverse unit deployment mechanism in battle. Only then do you have the opportunity to create scenarios that are close to historical accuracy, rather than simply throwing things together.

For example, in the Battle of Kursk in history, a larger number of T-34s fought against stronger German tanks. The historical accuracy is not a 1v1 battle with equal numbers.

If it is not restored in these places, the so-called historical accuracy cannot be achieved.

No one here thinks that AVS, FG42-2, and Fedorov automatic rifles appeared in large numbers in the Battle of Moscow and the Battle of Berlin to be historically accurate. There is also the misuse of various bolters.

This is not to suggest that developers completely ban these weapons, I think players can accept these weapons appearing in small amounts in battle with certain rules.

In history, FG42 was once assigned to the airborne troops, so the squad equipped with FG42 can join the battlefield as an elite unit under certain conditions, and there is no need to ban him, but all this is not unlimited abuse.

If you want that immersive atmosphere and variety of options, then I think the spawn mechanic is the best solution.

Game mechanics:

Each player has a point counter, and every time a player deploys a unit, it costs some points. It has the following functions.

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  1. Increase of points:

1.1. The contribution in the battle will increase the points, which is the same as the current player’s score increase.
1.2. Points will also increase over time so you can get a cooldown like indicator.
1.3. Points have a certain upper limit. The upper limit is to avoid the emergence of point rich people.

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  1. Spend points:

2.1. The weapons and vehicles equipped by player soldiers will have their own scoring conditions.
2.2. In the game the player must spend points to deploy his squad.
2.3. Depends on player’s free configuration and choice.
(! I don’t like pre-equipped squads in the server, I prefer to assemble and develop squads by myself!)
2.4. Players participating in the battle must equip at least one base team whose score is below a certain score.
- This is to prevent players from being unable to deploy things due to losing all points, this applies to feature 1.2. If a player loses all points, he will wait for a while to come to this main unit. For example 20 seconds.
- This basic unit can be reused.

Most of these functions are just based on the existing Enlisted and CRSED functions. It is achievable and has a measurable amount of work from a procedural point of view.

Players can even implement most of these described functions themselves if they allow them to write Das code.

Based on this basic points mechanism skeleton, game rules can flexibly expand a large number of rich content and game rules.

Armored vehicles and tanks:

  • Deploying tanks costs credits
  • You can equip tanks with different amounts of ammo, just like in War Thunder, different ammo configurations cost different points!
  • Weaker tanks cost less points, you can use 3 T-34s to beat 1 tiger in winter!
  • Maybe tanks can be deployed repeatedly until you use up all the points
    • FQA: What if a player monopolizes tanks?
    • A: Even in the current game I can monopolize 3 tanks. So there is no direct connection here in this question.
    • A: Larger maps and 20v20 battles will fundamentally solve the problem of vehicle monopoly.
  • More types of vehicles also have their own uses, and they cost different points, for example, rocket tanks may cost more points.

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Historically Accurate Aircraft:

  • Suicide jet missiles are one of the most game breaking situations in current spam mode. You can’t defend it here.
  • Players will be punished with double points after committing suicide, which means you cannot play as a suicide missile
  • You can set different weapon mounts and bombs for the plane, just like War Thunder does, different weapons will cost you different points!
  • The player can return to the airfield or carrier where he can choose to redeploy to another squad. A safe return flight will return all your Deployment Points!

Transport Vehicles: Players can configure different transport vehicles for their squad, armed half-track vehicles and armored vehicles will cost more points! Depends on the player’s free choice!

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Radio and Signal Corps Support: Players can spend these points to call some special radio support, such as spending 600 points to call Katyusha once in an emergency to cover a large area with firepower. But these are not abuses!

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Engineer’s construction fortifications: Engineer construction also costs these points. Players can spend points to build different types of fortifications, or to fix weapons. The player can spend more points to deploy a Pak43, if his points are not much, he can only choose to deploy Pak38, all of which are decided and chosen by the player himself.

Example of model deduction: (this is just an example, I think the specific numbers need further detailed design)

Players will get 5 points every 10 seconds in the game. The upper limit of soul points that a player can store is 1000 points.

Weapon points table: (this is just an example)
Mosin Nagant: 1 point
PPS-42: 2 points
PPsh: 3 points
DP-27: 4 points
AVT: 5 points
T-26: 50 points
T-34-1941: 300 points
T-34-85: 500 points
IS-2: 800 points

Players participating in this battle must equip a team with less than 10 points, refer to 2.4.

If the player wastes all the points, he only needs to wait up to 20 seconds before deploying a basic squad to continue fighting

He can be:

Mosin Nagant*9 = 9 points

Mosin Nagan5 + DP-271 = 9 points

In any case the player can choose for himself! This is very important for fun and stickiness.

With such a feature, even in ordinary games, there is more room for design.

The development team or MOD author will be able to adjust the player’s use of weapons and equipment of different strengths through these scores.

Such as a large-caliber heavy machine gun, well he is really powerful. But to balance him, what you have to do is not remove the ability of bullets to penetrate wooden walls. You just have to make the Large Caliber Heavy Machine Gun cost more build points and build time! Large-caliber heavy machine guns will now cost 200 points to build! Players will cherish it rather than abuse it.

There are also different types of anti-aircraft guns, which in historically accurate battles can sometimes be used as weapons against ground targets. But he needs to spend more points to build. This gives players the option to build AA guns in the rear for use against aircraft instead of wasting 300 points building flimsy AA guns on the front!

Implementation of historical accuracy. This is only relative historical accuracy.

This feature can even be implemented in MM! You don’t need any BR based MM system right now, as BR’s MM will just split players.

Why can’t players use T-70 against Panther tanks? This has happened in history. T-34/76 also directly faced Tiger tanks in the battle of Kursk and won!

And BR-MM is difficult to deal with weapons like MP3008, if it is based on points MP3008 can play a role in later battles without embarrassment, because it costs less points to deploy.

in different historical maps. Players have different initial points.

For example

Maps and battles set in 1941: initial score 100

Maps and battles set in 1943: initial score 500

Maps and battles set in 1945: initial score 800

Suppose a T-34-1941 costs 300 points, and a Tiger tank costs 700 scores so T-34 can be deployed more to deal with Tiger tanks!

And it will implement the feature about late tanks will be difficult to appear in early maps, and even if they appear, they will be rare!

Historical accuracy is definitely not a fair fight for 1v1, here is the difference in numbers!

For historically accurate battles, don’t preset and fix squad configurations!

I hate the squads arranged by the server, I want to use the squads I cultivated and the advanced squads and weapons I bought!

Dont do this preset things! I like to want to play the squads I cultivated! There are also decorations for clothing and various vehicles

In any case, players are allowed to choose by themselves! Diversity of gameplay, rich choices are very important for fun and stickiness.

Discussion on the topic is welcome.

If you only like spam games, you can keep silent in this post.

If you are interested in this or have questions, welcome here discuss and add your thoughts.

20 Likes

This is a very good suggestion as is force players to be more active in the game and reduce the frequency of spawning powerful squads and equipment.

Currently there is nothing stopping me as a player from bringing multiple flametrooper, assaulter, vehicle squads into a match. I can swap each soldier class for the best member and give them all the best weapons.

I think the punishment for double point is too harsh. Instead make spawning a plane deplete a lot of the stored points and 1 bombing run will not replenish the points close to its previous state. It make players more careful to when to spawning a plane.

Lastly I think if implemented this point system could make it easier for the dev to buff or nerf certain squad, weapon or feature in the future.

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Weapons composition must also vary from country to country.
ussr-specialized in smgs (not an avt, pedorov spam like now)
us- specialized in semi-auto …

more details are the only way…

4 Likes

well i have been saying that modders need access to more tools so they can modify game even further. some of the most popular games came from mods being able to do lots of stuff and some become even more popular than base game itself.

5 Likes

My assumption is an adjustable preset:
The official limit is which teams can be carried (just to prevent someone from using Federlov in Berlin or MKB42 in Moscow) to participate in the competition, but you can customize the teams, whether it is the number, occupation or weapons.
The same is true for vehicles. Vehicles of different levels will consume different scores. For example, KV1 will consume four times the scores of T26 and six times the scores of BA11. In addition, if you use low level vehicles to destroy high level vehicles, you will get additional rewards

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Fedorov, as a WWI weapon, shouldn’t be seen in large numbers spam anywhere, not even Berlin.


But I have nothing against their presence in small numbers, in this theme all weapons are meant to work together. This is the baseline.

Then there can be some additional conditions, such as disabling the MP3008 or other weapons into the game. But this is out of the main topic.


In my above concept these parameters
is configurable. Perhaps through a simple slider interface.

  • Natural rate for spawn scores increasing
  • Maximum spawn scores that each player can be stored
  • Initial scores for begin of the game
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I’m just giving an example. I actually want it to be a gold card weapon

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The only historical accuracy suggestion that actually makes sense. Well done :+1:

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fedorov as weapon that was mostly expanded/destroyed in winter war should not be seen anywhere except there.

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Im not at this level of editing for costum map for start a discussion, so i can only give you a good work

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Thank you Mr. Adamnpee for your question.

If he hadn’t come here to start some kind of naughty argument…

But I don’t think so, if he only likes to play the mode of sending spam, he won’t come back to reply to the topic related to custom games. He might be genuinely interested in it.

We can now analyze Mr. Adamnpee’s confusion and see if his concerns can be accommodated here.

Suppose Mr. Adamnpee one day gets tired of spamming patterns and he decides to take part in a historically accurate custom battle with his Premium Panzer IV J which he bought for 53€.

Well, now if based on the hypothetical scenario proposed by Helper, namely pre-assembled squads on such servers. When entering the game, our poor Mr. Adamnpee’s Premium Panzer IV J is completely gone! He can’t even see and select the Premium Vehicle he paid for.

This is a point I emphasized very much in the Post, that is, players need to be allowed to choose and use their own things, so the pre-assembled squads on such servers scheme is not feasible in the face of this appeal.

Now we come to the Spawn Score based scenario, at least Adamnpee can see the Premium Panzer IV J he paid for in his deployment queue, and he will have a chance to deploy his vehicle anyway.

So is there a possibility for him to deploy his Premium Panzer IV J at the beginning of the game more easily? I think there are.

There are two ways

  1. Allow players to set certain vehicles or infantry squads to not cost any Spawn Score when they are deployed for the first time. Just like in CRSED, the hero does not need to spend Spawn Score to use the skill for the first time. This feature could be a switch that players just need to turn on in a custom room.

  2. Mr. Adamnpee he can configure the initial value of SpawnScore of the custom room to 999999 on creating the room, so that the custom room he creates can deploy anything he wants without limit, well if this is the case it is the same as sending spam There is no difference in the mode, he can go directly to the spam mode specially prepared for him.


patch:

I’m agree that if Premium Panzer IV which can cost less Spawn Score than regular Panzer IV H/J

2 Likes

Im not exactly fan of removing or limiting anything.
Especiatly to just gain some “HA immersion” as we can have them both.
Others who enjoy theyr no matter how unhistoric weapons in arcade mode and people with theyr HA immersions can do what ever they want in customs.

What comes to “BR” locking equipment to certain campaigns ( Which are about to be removed ) isnt exactly logical either.
It would keep maps like in moscow as absolute onesided shitshows the exact reason is arguably one of the major issues that campaign doesnt have players and have horribly balanced games.

To clarify, this I dont care is there KT in moscow maps or not if it has proper counter to it such as IS2.

2 Likes

I can understand your point, but if you come here you must be looking for some kind of solace.

Those limitations still exist if you talk about weapons, or the current Enlisted game. It’s not in the form of fractions, but limits are everywhere. Otherwise there will be a 10v10 tank or aircraft battle in your battle. Otherwise you wouldn’t see so many suicide planes.

Well this thread is not about these ongoing issues.

Well even in BF, you need to spend team points to call a missile.

So you can only find some suitable ways to shape the rules of the game in the end, otherwise you can’t get WW2 HA in a battlefield full of Fedorov everywhere.

In the battle of HA, the opponent of KT can be T-34 or even T-70, I believe this is clearly analyzed in the theme

Looking forward to your constructive comments here.

If you simply like the unlimited spam mode, then go straight to the normal mode.

2 Likes

Sure they do and apparently its not exactly working. Certain campaigns with decent / balanced equipment have “healthy” playerbase and the moscow for example remains as 9 / 10 games absolute shitshows.

Tanks / Planes have the limitations of 2? due to keep focus on the object as neither above mentioned vehicles cant exactly cap the points which is pretty much the objective of the game.
As well as many other various reasons but you get the point.

Not sure, but quite sure tanks for example uses more “tickets” for attackers than regular infantry in current game.

The problem here is which HA ? As ive stated I dont care is it fedorov in wrong place or KT. Its in wrong place and thats the dealbreaker what comes to HA for me.

Then we have these alternative HA players that considers some equipment fine as for some magical reason they “could” have been there aka very much what we currently have.

Then we have those that accepts only the weapons used, theoreticly making moscow for example absolute shitshow.

And one group that wants HA to extend to even squad formations are inline with timeline.

Cant really include all of this in matchmake and make everyone happy.
Which is pretty much why the customs for these kind of games are only option due to there being about half million different variations of what HA is for different ppl.

If I understood correctly in HA form there would be KT vs t34 / t70 ?
Which is almost same we had quite sometime in moscow with T-50 and arguably it wasnt exactly fun.
Nor was the jumbo vs panther.
Infact it was pretty much entirely breaking one part of the game aka tankplay.

What Iam more intrested of is the balance, Im more than willing to sacrifice HA for balance.
If theres KT there must be IS2 or something equal to counter it, regardless of the map. And thats how its supposed to be with BR / what ever it was balancing the games.

AND this is also why I think the customs is best way to create HA games.
People can have what ever variety of HA they are intrested of.
I personally dont enjoy games with massive imbalance with equipment or players.

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It’s just off topic if you’re talking based on the small CQC battle area missions right now.

Even in the example I listed above, features like Katyusha rocket launchers require map changes to implement

However, as a game rule basis, the Spawn Score will provide the basic foundation and room for improvement for further large-scale map game modes.

In custom games or mod games, you can have more players and bigger maps, and longer battles, players may join and leave at any time, the battlefield is dynamic

Also the number of tanks and planes can be different from the current limit of 2.

This is your illusion, there is no such difference in the program, they are the same number.

You see different numbers because of the decimal point in the calculation, they have an incomprehensible formula.

I have asked them many times about this as this topic asking for. it can be some thing like spawn score.

I can understand your point of view. But this appeal of yours doesn’t satisfy the situation I described in the OP. He just couldn’t seem to convince me.

You don’t like being limited, and you want the so-called balanced historical accuracy of your combat.

Even some simple examples show that this situation is unsatisfactory:

In the early battles of the Great Patriotic War, KV1/KV2 blocked a large number of German mechanized troops in the Battle of Moscow. The battle was not what you would call balanced, but the historical accuracy was not as one-sided as these tanks were. The Germans still won Breakthrough and progress.

In the Battle of Kursk, the Soviet Red Army was still equipped with a large number of T-34/76, while their opponents had a considerable number of Tiger and Panther tanks.

Maybe these are what you call a completely unbalanced game, but have you considered that these are what some players want, so you don’t have to impose your balance preferences on all players here.

Historical accuracy is never balanced.

If you ask for so called balance it will end up being absolutely unbalanced.

Well that’s what happens in normal spam mode, as you say about the T-50 tank scenario.

If they’re going to make a custom game mode, a new mode like GunGame, they can totally implement the mechanics I’m talking about, SpawnScore itself is a balancing tool.

The purpose of this tool is not to change the performance of weapons, but to change the number and frequency of appearance of weapons. I don’t know if you understand this?

Well, you say you don’t like any restrictions, then neither will your enemies, all being fair, how do you beat the same number of Tigers in the Kursk Plain with the same number of T-34 tanks tank? Is this historically accurate? It’s all back to square one.

If you want historical accuracy and fun, and fun is just as important, you have to have a rule. I think the SpawnScore mechanism or similar mechanism is the best choice, it has better scalability and scalability.

If you, like mr pee above, don’t like too many restrictions, you just need to set your initial respawn score a little higher, and you’ll get a mod that’s closer to spam mode.

I look forward to your constructive thoughts on this.


Even T34 vs. Tiger games are balanced by what I call the SpawnScore mechanic.

I look forward to your constructive comments at least for this situation.

Instead of crying that KV2 can’t be on the battlefield because he’s too OP for my little tank to deal with.


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Even from a business point of view, as a development team they made these things, it’s their hard work.

I have no doubt that these contents will one day appear in the game in the right way.

I hope they are not a way to spam. I’m sure you don’t want spam either. Dozens of KV2s against dozens of Stugs, that’s not going to be the historical accuracy you want.

You’ll eventually have some sort of game mechanic to do that


KV2

Costing 1000 points and panzer III costing 100 points, it’s definitely a fair fight, panzer III can easily break the neck of this steel behemoth from the front, he won’t be as unbalanced as you said.

Nor will it be spam everywhere like a flood.Because you have a score limit.

Constraints maybe something you don’t like, and now it helps you and all palyers to shape historical accuracy in game.

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Well thats pretty much what the current game is about.

Which is obviously great for ppl with HA and what ever variety of visions.
Every each one of them can do what ever they like game, which none unfortunately isnt exactly suitable for arcade matchmake that aims to balance.

Oh well, il stand corrected.

Actually, no. I dont mind HA at all, for me it never existed.
So to make it clear, I dont care if theres KT in any of the moscow maps,stalingrad or even in moon.
All I want is that where ever that KT appears it has suitable counter in opposite team such as IS2.

Im more than aware of that and fail to see its relevance ?

And those who actually enjoy 1 sided shitshows can do it in customs ? I dont see the problem here.

Which is why it doesnt have priority in upcoming matchmake.

Not exactly sure how players with similar BR / KD / Score / what ever is being used as measure against each other with similar BR equipment is unbalanced ?

This is what happens in “HA” scenario, one faction is stronger than the other and makes moscow for example horrible campaign. Which most likely is one of the reasons why it doesnt have much players.

Im not asking any of restrictions to anything. Im asking balance.

Well im not asking historical accuracy in first place.

Honestly, ive got no idea anymore what you are baffling.

For all I care you can make historical accurated custom games where you fight as generall buttnaked against stormtroopers.

I hope that clarifies my thoughts about the subject.

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thats what orange START GAME button about, what I called spam mode.

Please take a look at the CATEGORY and TITLE of this topic, it’s about Custom Game and Mod.

These Custom Games are also part of the game!

It’s maybe a NEW GAME MODE,

So if your discussion based on Spam Mode is completely unprogressive and off topic.

How do you call in a Katyusha bombardment at 200m in CQC Spam Mode to destroy everything on the map?

So what are you still discussing here out of the topic?

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Apparently he didn’t notice this post is about custom lobbies.
It’s easy to miss this detail as it’s in the topic’s name.

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DOH, pardon me.

Having multiple conversations at sametime → problems.

Either way, customs do what ever you wish. I honestly think its best way to go forward with the game.

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Finally, welcome back to the topic described by Title~

I don’t think the current game is HA. Enlisted has lost HA long ago, HA only appeared briefly in CBT, and disappeared soon, with the abuse and out of control of the number of powerful weapons.

Fighting without restrictions is like a wild horse destroyed the HA, maybe also destroys the balance you want for.

This theme is something I as a player hope to bring back in future custom games. Reasonable choose with fun, Balanced battles, HA…etc.

1 Like