Historical BRs? Is it possible?

Suggestions
1

Another not a proposal, but rather a concept of how to leave the BR system and preserve some historicity. So, I’ll get to the point:

We divide all weapons and equipment into 2 conditional periods, these are 1941-1943 and 1944-1945. This division also serves as a balancing value, powerful weapons and equipment fall into the late period of the war, regardless of the year of production and the actual time of participation in the war. Initially, I thought it would be possible to make two separate sections like the old companies, but I came to the conclusion that this is unnecessary, and the usual division into combat ratings will be enough:

Early period of the war BR1, BR2, BR3.
Late period of the war BR4, BR5, BR6.
BR3 and BR4 do not intersect at all.
Spread ±1BR.
The combat rating, as now, will be determined by the maximum BR of the weapon or equipment in the setup.
BR1 and BR4 are the weakest weapons of their period. Accordingly, BR3 and BR6 are the strongest.
Weapons from the Early period can participate in Late period battles in this case BR3 is equivalent to BR6. Similarly, other BRs. If they have the appropriate weapons. However, Late period weapons cannot participate in Early period battles.
I wanted to make only 4 battle ratings, but in the end I decided to add another one to better separate weak and strong weapons.

An example of implementation based only on weapons from the research tree:

USSR Early period 1941-1943.

Spoiler

SMG
PPD-34 BR1
PPD-34/38 BR3
PPSh-41 “Obrez” BR2
PPD-40 BR3

Rifles
Mosin M1907 Carbine BR1
Mosin M91 “Dragoon” BR 1
Mosin M1938 Carbine BR 1
Mosin M91/30 BR 1
Winchester M1895 BR 1
Sn. rifles .
Sniper Mosin M91/30 BR 2

Self-loading
SVT-38 BR 3

Rifle
TOZ-B BR 1

Assault rifle
Fedorov Avtomat BR 3

Machine gun
Madsen BR2
DP-27 BR3

Anti-tank
PTRD-41 BR1
PTRS-41 BR1

Flamethrower
ROKS-2 BR3

Mortar
RM-38 BR2
RM-40 BR3

USSR Late period 1944-1945.

Spoiler

SMG
PPS-42 BR4
PPS-43 BR4
PPSh-41 (Box) BR5
PPSh-41 BR5

Rifles
Mosin M44 Carbine BR4
Mosin with Diakonov BR 4
Mosin M91/30 VPGS BR 4

Self-loading
SVT-40 BR 5
AVS-36 BR 6
AVT-40 BR 6
Sn. rifles .
Sniper SVT-38 BR 5
Sniper SVT-40 BR 5
Sniper AVS-36 BR 6

Assault rifle
AS-44 Model 5 BR 6

Machine gun
DPM BR 4
DT-29 BR 5
Maxim-Tokarev BR 5
RD-44 BR6

Anti-tank
M1 Bazooka BR4
Panzerfaust 60 BR5
Panzerfaust 100 BR6

Flamethrower
ROKS-3 BR6

Mortar
BM-41 BR6

Germany Early period 1941-1943.

Spoiler

SMG
MP 28 BR1
MP 34(o) BR1
Beretta M38A BR 1
Beretta M1918 BR 2
OVP M1918 BR 2
MP 38 BR 2
Beretta M1 BR 3
PPSh-41 ‘Obrez’ BR 2
MP 40 BR 3
Beretta M38/42 BR 3

Rifles
Carcano M41 (D) BR 1
Gewehr 33/40 BR 1
Kar98k BR 1
Kar98k Kriegsmodell BR 1
Carcano M41 BR 1
Carcano Mod. 38 (7.35mm) BR 1
Vz. 24 BR 1
Pre-War Kar98k BR 1
Carcano M1891 BR 1
Mannlicher M1895 BR 1
Sn. rifles
Sniper Kar98k BR 2
Sniper Pre-War Kar98k BR 2
Sniper Carcano M91 BR 2
Sniper Gewehr 98 BR 2
Sniper Carcano Mod. 38 (7.35mm) BR 2

self-charging
Gewehr 41 BR 3
ZH-29 BR 3
Armaguerra Mod. 39 BR 2

Gun
M30 Luftwaffe Drilling BR 1

Machine
MKb 42(H) BR 3

Machine gun
Breda Mod. 30 BR 2
MG 13 BR 3
ZB-26 BR 3
MG 34 BR 3

Anti-tank
PzB-38 BR 1
PzB-39 BR 1
Sturmpistole BR 3

Flamethrower
Flammenwerfer 35 BR 3

Mortar
Granatwerfer 36 BR 2

Germany Late period 1944-1945.

Spoiler

SMG
FNAB-43 BR 4
MP 3008 BR 4
ZK-383 BR 5
MP 35/I BR 4
Kiraly 39M BR 5
Beretta M38A (40 rounds) BR 4

Rifles
VG.2 BR 4
MAS-36 BR 4
Kar98k with GGP/40 BR 4
Kar98k with grenade launcher BR 4

self-charging
VG 1-5 BR 4
Gewehr 43 BR 5
FG 42 BR 6
FG 42 II BR6
Sn. rifles.
Sniper FG 42 II BR 6
Sniper Gewehr 43 BR 5

Submachine gun
MP 43/1 BR 6
StG 44 BR 6
Sniper MKb 42(H) BR 6
Sniper StG 44 BR 6

Machine gun
MG 42 BR 4
MG 34 Patronentrommel BR 5
MG 15 BR6
MG 42 100 BR6

Anti-tank
GrB-39 BR4
Panzerfaust 60 BR5
RPzB-43 Ofenrohr BR6
Panzerfaust 100 BR6

Flamethrower
Flammenwerfer 41 BR6

Mortar
Kz 8cm GrW 42 BR6

USA Early period 1941-1943.

Spoiler

SMG
M50 Reising BR 1
Sten Mk II BR 1
M3 Submachine Gun BR 1
M3A1 Submachine Gun BR 2
Owen Mk I BR 2
Lanchester BR 3
M1A1 Thompson BR 3
M1928A1 Thompson BR 3

Rifles
Springfield M1903 BR 1
Springfield M1903A1 USMC BR 1
Enfield P14 BR 1
M1917 Enfield BR 1
Ross Mk.III BR 1
Sn. rifles
Sniper Springfield M1903A1 BR 2
Sniper Springfield M1903A3 BR 2
Sniper Springfield M1903A4 BR 2
Sniper Lee-Enfield No.4 MkI (T) BR 2

self-charging
M1 Carbine BR 2
M1 Garand BR 3

Gun
Ithaca 37 BR 1
Winchester Model 1912 BR 2

Machine gun
Vickers-Berthier BR 2
Bren Mk I BR 2
Bren Mk II BR 2
Browning M1918 BR 3

Anti-tank
Boys ATR BR2
PIAT BR3

Flamethrower
M1 Flamethrower BR 3
M1A1 Flamethrower BR 3

Mortar
Two-inch mortar BR 2
M2 Mortar BR3

USA Late period 1944-1945.

Spoiler

SMG
M1928A1 Thompson 50 BR 5
M1 Thompson BR 4
M21/28 Thompson BR 4

Rifles
Lee-Enfield No.4 MkI BR 4
SMLE Mk III BR 4
M1903 with grenade launcher BR 4
SMLE Mk III with Cup GL BR 4

Self-charging
Johnson M1941 BR 5
M2 Carbine BR 6
T20 BR 6
M1 Carbine with M8 GL BR 4
M1 Garand with M7 GL BR 5
Sn. rifles
Sniper M1 Garand BR 4
Sniper M1C Garand BR 5

Gun
Browning Auto 5 BR 4

Machine
Hyde M1944 BR 6

Machine gun
Browning M1918A1 BR 4
Browning M1918A2 BR 4
M1941 Johnson LMG BR 5
Browning M1919A6 BR6

Anti-tank
M1 Bazooka BR4
M9 Bazooka BR5
RPzB-43 Ofenrohr BR6

Flamethrower
M2 Flamethrower BR6

Japan Early 1941-1943

Spoiler

SMG
S1-100 BR 1
Type 100 SMG (Early) BR 1
MP 28 (7.65mm) BR 2
Type 2a SMG BR 3
SIG 1920 BR 3

Rifles
Arisaka Type 38 Carbine BR 1
Arisaka Type 38 Rifle BR 1
Type I Rifle BR 1
Type 99 Rifle (Early) BR 1
Sn . rifles .
Sniper Type 97 Rifle
Sniper Type 99 Rifle

Self-loading
Type Hei Rifle BR 2
Type Otsu Rifle BR 3

Machine Gun
Type 11 LMG BR 2
Type 97 LMG BR 2
Type 96 LMG BR 3

Anti-Tank
Type 97 Anti-Tank Rifle BR 1
Type 5 Rocket Launcher BR 2

Flamethrower
Type 93 Flamethrower BR 3

Mortar
Type 89 Mortar

Japan Late Period 1944-1945.

Spoiler

SMG
Type 100 SMG (Late) BR 4
Type 2 SMG BR 4
Tokyo Arsenal SMG BR 5

Rifles
Type 99 Rifle (Late) BR 4
Type 38 with Type 100 GL BR 4
Type 99 with Type 2 GL BR 4

Self-loaders
Type 4 Rifle BR 5
Type Hei Automatic Rifle BR 6

Shotgun
FN Browning Auto-5 BR 4

Machine gun
KE7 BR 4
Type 99 LMG BR 4
Te-4 MG BR 5
Type 100 MG BR 6

Anti-tank
Type 4 Rocket Launcher BR 4

Flamethrower
Type 100 Flamethrower BR4

The same should be done with tanks and planes, but as a rule, the newer it is, the stronger it is, so there shouldn’t be any major changes. Of course, there are some controversial issues, but nothing is insoluble. Thank you for your attention.

9 Likes
2

I like the idea of dividing BRs into early and late weapons. However, it seems to me that this should be done not by stretching weapons to BRs that are not typical for them, but by adding new weapons that will close the holes in the balance of “historical BRs”. Asymmetrical balance like SPGs and aircraft with good suspensions against indestructible tanks, or one faction with good SMGs against another faction with good machine guns, and so on. Unless, of course, we remove paper from this equation.

The question remains - what should those who armed themselves with weapons from both “eras” do? Make a separate queue for them? Or assign them to the “late war” queue?

1 Like
3

the answer to this question is in my text. Perhaps it is not clear because of mistakes in translation?

1 Like
4

Yes, there is an answer, although it was not easy to find and recognize it.

1 Like
5

Tbh I don’t really understand what is the benefit of this system over for example BR±0. Like, it’s not really historical but it’s not really balanced either.

7 Likes
6

I appreciate the effort of this post but seeing things like:

  • Fedorov Avtomat at BR3
  • Boys ATR at BR2
  • Type 4 rifle at BR5
  • Winchester at BR1
  • Type 4 launcher on BR4

makes me wonder how awful it would be to play it from a balance perspective

7

The idea is interesting, but I think it would be better to make two selection modes - balanced and authentic/realistic.

And this authentic mode will be better played with the mechanics of purchasing vehicles for points. Like in the event with robots.

8

I dont get entirely the line of logic here tbh, other than vaguely splitting up earlier designs vs later designs, -ish at least.

I think you could approach something more historical by using a hybrid system, Where all vehicles are assigned a BR as they are now, however weapons are instead given a point value, meaning you could bring a PPSh Box to BR2 by in turn only equipping the rest of the squad with basic BA’s like the 1907 Moisin.

ie.

Threshold for a squad to become BR2, is say 90 Points, 180 for BR3, (Say 10 points per soldier, so this is a normal rifleman squad).

Example
  • Medic/Assaulter - PPSh box - 80 points
  • AT - PTRD/1907 Moisin - 20 Points (This might go up to say 35 points if it was PTRS/M31 Moisin)
  • Engineer - 1907 Moisin/AP Mine - 14 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin/F1 grenade - 12 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin/F1 grenade - 12 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin - 10 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin - 10 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin - 10 Points
  • Rifleman - 1907 Moisin - 10 Points

Total of 178 Points, being below the BR3 threshold would mean this is a BR2 Squad.

The example give uses completely random point figures and is only intended as well, an example.

Ofc if there were to be used, it would take at least a fair time to work it out and balance it out, but on the plus side its far easier to balance such a system once its in place, and instead of guns being completely outclassed at a BR meaning they are never used (look at 90% of BR2 SMGs for the US and Germany), They might see new use as cheaper options as opposed to as of currently being relegated for larp at best.

9

That is very similar to something that Veekay proposed already, I love the concept but its unlikely to happen.
I believe PvE would come and give that what we all want.

1 Like
10

All we need is 3 total BRs:

BR early war

BR mid war

BR late war

Some might argue that BRs aren’t about time periods, but I disagree. The broad concept absolutely is that technological advancements happened during the war - and thus a Panzer III is correctly lower in BR than a Panzer IV.

The only exceptions right now are late war cheap and poor quality vehicles and guns, light late war vehicles, and early pre war production guns with higher quality - BUT with smart gameplay and balance tweaks these issues could easily be addressed.

For example, Semi auto VG with a much faster rate of fire could easily sit in BR4, with better accuracy even in BR5.

Puma and other late war scout vehicles could move to BR4/5 with additional mechanics like a light vehicle class or in further advancing the rider class.

Late war cheap tank versions like Panzer IV J could get better ammo selection, additional turret armor in the form of spare tracks or better mobility.

As long as the devs are creative enough, HA and balance are absolutely two things that can coexist at the same time.

1 Like
11

Interesting concept.

However, there’s one thing to discuss.

Making Enlisted historical again should happen without exceptions, because otherwise we will get mixed salad again.

Technically Tiger tank falls into “1942”, but it was not used during 1942-43 Stalingrad.

Technically both Panther and Tiger are “Kursk 1943”, but their BR counterparts T-34-85 and IS didn’t exist in 1943.

The more I think about this the more I am leaning towards Maps dictating which equipment can and cannot be used.

E.g. in this Perfect Enlisted 1942-43 Stalingrad must have PPS-42/43 and Tiger tanks greyed out as “unavailable” regardless of their BR.

12

Early period balance between Soviets and Axis is a joke.
PPD-40 and Fedorov on BR3 while Axis get Mp40 and mkb42(H), I heard better jokes from you.
Early Japan and US would be very flawed again as well.
Type Otsu rifle against Garand again, because it was so great the first time…

Seems like a cheap excuse to downtier Soviet weapons, while uptiering every other faction´s weapons.

The idea itself is not bad but its just pointless since the game wont get more historically accurate.
weapons such as Hyde1944, RD-44, Japanese and US Ofenrohr, Type hei auto ect will still fill the game with prototypes.

BRs do not represent the years, if you want historical accuracy in Enlisted than support the creation of a new HA game mode but the game has been on the path of going arcade and mainstream for years and that wont change but people like me, Veekay and other people that want HA not for just cheap excuses to nerf other factions can get our own game mode.

13

Dude, I wrote this when Fedorov’s Аutomat had 12 damage. And this looks more like a Moscow company.
And most importantly, this is just a suggestion, you can suggest a different solution, I’ll listen to you.

2 Likes
14

No.

15

IMO its best not to include ARs for early period considering neither Japan or US would have one.

SMG balance needs tweaking as well but ultimately I think the best solution is a dedicated historically accurate game mode that balances sides by allowing captured and lend-leased weapons rather than prototypes.

16

I agree. I myself was not sure about this option.

17

Another ahistorical historical MM? Another month already?

1 Like
18

As for this, players should be able to customize their loadouts in custom games. so that without unnecessary complications they themselves can make game modes like the current USSR vs. Japan.
I hope I wrote it clearly.

19

I understand. Keep monitoring, we will contact you.

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20

Only if you guys managed to become funny by that point.