Reading through the prior topics, it’s unclear to me if Enlisted never had friendly fire, or previously had.
In any event, I recently unlocked the mortar squad in Moscow, and as I was farming infantry kills from behind a barn and reflecting on my time in the actual armed forces, I couldn’t help wondering how FF (balanced to eliminate abusive/toxic players of course) would alter the gameplay.
In real battles, artillery of any sort - even machine guns - needs to be carefully coordinated to avoid killing your own. There are always clearly delineated fields of fire for MGs and mortars, and defined windows for when and where it is safe for infantry to advance.
Obviously, in an ad-hoc fight like we have in video games, you can’t plan the whole battle out in advance like that. But it would be easy to send players warnings when they are in the line of fire of an MG or when friendly mortars or airstrikes are incoming. It would force teams to work together more closely to coordinate attacks through the chat; or, alternatively, force artillerymen to target enemy lines of reinforcement instead of just targeting the objective and farming kills.
In any event, it would put an end to some of the ridiculous grenade/artillery farming we have now. For an otherwise fairly realistic game, the immersion is really killed when you’re defending an objective inside a constant cloud of friendly grenade fragments that you are somehow immune to.
Gaijin needs to come up with a model that allows friendly fire but limits abuse - whether by kicking players who spam grenades after repeated automated warnings, or by limiting FF to indirect fire and MGs, or having damage-reduced FF, or something of the sort.
I think you came to conclusion by yourself. In absolutely uncoordinated match with players with 0 communication and probably language barriers this is simply not possible to coordinate and would do more harm than good.
Lone fighter has/had friendly fire and you clearly see issues of it. I got heavily penalized several times just because someone decided it would be good idea to walk into my arty zone. I put at on enemy position with no allies nearby but it takes a while before barrage starts so who to blame on team-killing then the one how pushed the trigger or the one that wandered to clearly marked area recklessly.
But I agree that lack of friendly fire sometimes leads to unbalanced and not pleasant gameplay experience especially regarding objectives that are mostly open. One team can simply spam that place with arty and it will pick only enemies.
for the majority is in the LF custom matches.
because the gamemodes ( even if it’s not in hardcore ) has setted to default the friendly fire option.
meaning that whatever you do ( throwing nades or shoot at friendlys or even run them over ) will affect their hp, and most of the time, you can easely kill them.
in squad games on the other hand, can have team kill if hardcore is enabled.
although, in normal matches, you don’t need hardcore. you can still harm people with artillery ( from radio operator ) or you use the indirect fire of the flamethrower and you can run them over with vehicles.
all the other damage are turned off.
don’t worry, don’t feel bad. mortars are not what like they used to be.
so currently, it’s balanced. you have to consider that you can only use 5 mortar barrage ( if you have 2 mortar mens and 1 engineer ). plus, the rounds delay is huge and the accuracy isn’t always on point.
it’s more balanced than it used to.
enlisted is not meant to be a mil sim game ( unless you use custom matches for it with “the right” settings ). base game it’s meant to be somewhat arcade with realistic aspects.
that’s not necessary though.
so you’re seeking realism and immersion in enlisted?
not trying to be a jerk, but this game ain’t for the likes of us.
i used to think, wanted and suggested the same in the past. but it’s not the view of the team as far as we can tell ( of course, because of the jumbo, m24s, t50s, fgs to everyones, and all the other " lovely " unrealistic and unhistorical aspects.
the only thing that you can do, is find a community that hosts historical and realistic aspects of it, and stick with them. like some sort of " controlled " community game. where are somewhat managed by players in the spot of admins. although, for this to work correctly, we have to wait for DF/gaijin to implement more controls for admins ( and make the kick vote more functional )
Didnt they remove it for artillery and mortars some time ago? I have been walking through alot of friendly artillery fire lately without being damaged/disoriented
And also you need to almost empty an entire flamethrower to kill one teamate
Lone fighter has/had friendly fire and you clearly see issues of it. I got heavily penalized several times just because someone decided it would be good idea to walk into my arty zone. I put at on enemy position with no allies nearby but it takes a while before barrage starts so who to blame on team-killing then the one how pushed the trigger or the one that wandered to clearly marked area recklessly.
I think these are all side-issues that could be eliminated with appropriate safeguards though. I don’t think it’s inherently unsolveable.
Fully agree. We need to re add friendly fire to planes and mortars. Also friendly nades should kill you.
Look why
Your friend throws a nade at the enemy, naturarly the enemy will run and turn his back, but since you have no danger from the nade you push and kill him.
This is what I’m saying, though. It would change the way artillery is used. People won’t use artillery on the objective if it’ll kill their own guys and make them lose. If a team can coordinate, they’ll hold back for the arty before advancing, and if they’re not, they’ll use arty to target strongpoints instead of objectives.
E.g., in many cases, teammates will mark flanking targets for my mortar, but I’ll ignore them and pound the objective to keep the enemy off it. If FF was enabled, I could easily shift my fire to compensate.
Imho the half measures in regards to FF just don’t work. You either have to enabled it on everything on just don’t have it at all.
What full FF does is slows down gameplay, which isn’t it necessary bad, but that what makes mortars and arty work well, without being an instant kick from the server for mass FF.
Currently, because FF is not there and how maps are designed, the position of friendlies can change on the map faster than you can adjust your fire. There is hardly any use for a bomber when FF is enabled, can check it on YouTube. There is bullet penetration, which makes it very easy to shoot friendlies just by overpenning walls with any kind of MG.
I do t know if Custom Matches allow to have Hardcore mod as before, if they do, you are welcome to try and see how that goes.
That’s the result if you respond to FF with instant ban, but it doesnt have to be like that. If you disable FF just for small arms, that already eliminates 90% of TKers off the bat. And if you create minimap icons and send instant warnings to players that are in the path of friendly arty/MGs, they have time to clear the field of fire before it hits. You may have some annoying artymen that will fire at concentrations of their own troops, and that can be annoying - but that happens in real life as well, and if the friendly players get a warning of incoming rounds, they can clear the field or take cover before it hits. And since the frequency of arty/mortars is already restricted, it seems like there would be little danger of one or two bad eggs constantly bombarding the objective and preventing their team from getting near.
All this was tried in Red Orchestra 15 years ago. Since then, games either adopt full FF or no FF. This is done from experience, not from the lack of trying.
Half-measures make sense when it’s implemented like War Thunder’s, where methods where it’s hard to teamkill someone accidentally (like shooting them with a rifle) is disabled, while methods where it’s easy to be negligent, like artillery, are enabled.
So you can’t just ignore potential collateral damage but you can’t grief teammates either.
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