FG-42/M2 Carbine Suggestion

Suggestions
1

I have 2 possible solutions.

  1. Remove them from infantry and just make them an LMG (FG-42)/Assault (M2) and instead make the pederson device (worst than smg’s but a lot of shots) / schmeiser mk36.iii AND only infantry can equip them.

In all honesty they feel like more interesting devices (every ww2 game has the m2 carbine/stg/fg42), but these are unique lesser seen guns, and they’re not absolute role replacers

Infantry of US gets high capacity gun, with low recoil.
Infantry of GE get’s low capacity, sub par SMG.

They’re both subpar compared to actual SMG’s
GE SMG’s tend to have higher ROF , more bullets
US SMG’s have a higher Rof, Same damage, fully auto, less bullets.

Really what it does is make infantry into a poor man’s assault, with a gun with one slight benefit but worst TTK than the base SMG’s.

  1. Infantry only again and they take up 2 unit slots.
    Rarer weapon = less people likely to equip them and be costly.

Bring a sniper squad
1 sniper, 2 FG-42’s
2 sniper, 1 FG-42 + additional role
Instead of
3 snipers, engineer, bomber

bring a 6 man squad
2 main class, 2 FG 42’s
3 main class, 1 FG 42’s + additional role
2 main class, 1 FG 42’s + 2 additional roles

7 man squad
3 Main class + 2 FG-42’s
2 Main class + 2 FG-42’s + 1 additional role
2 Main class + 1 FG-42’s + 2 additional role
1 Main class + 2 FG-42’s + 2 additional roles
1 Main class + 1 FG-42’s + 3 additional roles + Infantry

8 man squad
4 Main class + 2 FG-42’s
4 Main class + 1 FG-42’s + 2 additional role
3 Main class + 2 FG-42’s + 2 additional role
3 Main class + 1 FG-42’s + 3 additional role

Really the only viable role to 4 man it in is infantry (4 FG-42’s + 1 additional role)

If i want CQC combat, 4 assaults is better than 2 FG42’s in CQC, with 4 other roles like bombers. Since most the 7-9 classes are more offensive classes where 5-6 are utility roles. Running an high tier multi-role weapon runs the trade of costing you your main/additional class roles will make people think before putting it on every weapon.

2

i complealty dislike this idea.

because you are not limiting them first of all,

second of all, the m2s never saw normandy.

so again, it’s not a proper fix.

and lastly, from what i can read, germany gets 1/2 fg per squad. which doeesn’t make any sense due to how low numbers were produced ( only around 5000 examples ) furthermore, to get in line up with historical accuracy ( to the very least ) only the mortars should be able to use those guns ( as they are from the paratrooper regiment and the only paratrooper battalion present in the game for germans ).

although, we all agree that not all classes should get those two weapons.

3 Likes
3

All they have to do is rename the M2 to M1/M2 Carbine, a full auto conversion of the M1, which did see combat in Normandy.

That said, I still prefer to just move them to LMG and SMG slots, then adding MP43 to counter the M1/M2 and MG1919 to counter the MG42 while the M1918A2 BAR would be moved to the same unlock slot as the FG42, both giving a new “Gunner III” squad, the German one having paratrooper uniforms.

1 Like
4

Well it’s a trade, you get the FG-42, but you lose out an extra infantry member, who can put lead down range (2 people shooting at 300RPM, with 1 shot bullets are more lethal.) Also since it has to be infantry, you can’t run it on non-infantry classes (You get double the RoF on the average infantry weapon… for less total people firing.)

Nothing about the game is very historically accurate. Pass me the documentry of the bunny hopping lean wiggling ww 2 snipers.

Alright no more M2, the bigger caliber Johnson that uses a larger bullet so closer to M1 grand damage, but also a lightweight machine gun! That saw some use! On an infantry special forces so you can run 9 of em!

Also we have the pederson/schmeiser mk36.iii which where barely used in WW2? Another reality breaking thing. Again having it 1:1 to reality, alright german infantry can only field 90% Kar9k, if you try to pick another weapon you have a 90% chance you’re kicked from the match as you dont exist.

I like 1 more as the pederson/schmeiser mk36.iii are way more interesting sub-par smg’s, making them more poor man’s assaults, who are god awful at range.

5

I would like that, another solution i felt was semi-autos should be an infantry only gun. (Really no point in running infantry units in a lot of a squad, Infantry has NOTHING that makes them unique.)

Though I feel for balance sake, they should make the M1/M2/MP43(STG) work as a reverse SMG
Lower 10m but it goes up a bit for 100m, than back down hard like an smg. It would make sense ballistic wise. 3 bullets up close, 2 past 10m. So assaults or someone running into your face is a threat.

Bullets that stay in the body are more lethal, faster bullets have more penetration so an M1/M2/STG is more likely to pass through.

6

The overstamped conversion M2 Carbines absolutely did not see combat in Normandy. The M2 was not even accepted for service and standardized until October of 1944 (before that the rifle was known as the T4 Carbine), and conversion kits T17 and T18 were made to convert existing rifles while production got going. Historically speaking, Battle of the Bulge campaign would be the earliest possible time that overstamped M2 Carbines could have seen service.

That being said, I would be sad if it got removed from Normandy since it is my personal favorite gun of WWII.

7

7,000 approximately.
But at least 1/4 of these stayed with the 2nd Fallschirmjaeger Battalion so even less available to the regular troops.
Something does need to be done to rework it, even creating a new unit that is only capable of equipping the weapons rather than all troops.

Are they the battle pass unlock stuff?
Because if so, you can only get one or 2 at most. So I guess that’s in keeping with realism.

8

but that doesn’t make much sense.

you are breaking balance of the squads.

i don’t know you, but i wouldn’t be happy facing fgs almost everywhere.

it’s irrelevant

and?

agreed. i don’t understand those questionable life decisions from the devs. just like the mp18 squad…

not really, enlisted tries to somewhat follow a logic and a layout that actually existed.

this is why troopers can only carry semi auto and bolt actions ( until the m2 and the fg )

smgs are supposed to be squad leaders, as such, carry smgs. machinegunners it’s quite self explanatory, and all the other classes are just regular troopers with ability to use special weapons.

it makes sense.

but again, for the same reason i don’t see why everyone should use weapons that they never received, or intended to be used.

like, weather it’s truee that this game it’s not totally accurate for different reasons, but it has be realistic.
and realism is a thing even mentioned by the devs themselves.

so i can partially agree with what TCatPlaysGamezYT said:

but just like the jumbo and the m2. those needs to be gone.

multiple time during the making of this games alot thing changed, some of them didn’t necessarely had to be touched,

and just like the tank’s mg has been nerfed, it’s due to being accurate ( as not alot of Pumas and PZ IV H had mg42. insthead, they had the 34s ) all been maid for the saken of balance and logic.

hope this can make sense.

9

True they need to remove the current Jumbo, most of them used 76mm not 75mm. Need to remove current jumbo and use the one put into the game

FG-42 9,000~

In 1944 the US Army acknowledged this, and introduced the M2. A total of 217,000 were manufactured at the end of WW2, and did see limited service on Okinawa - and then extensive use in the Korean War and Vietnam War. These converted M1/M2 select-fire carbines saw limited combat service in Europe, primarily during the final Allied advance into Germany. So the M1/M2 Conversion saw use in germany, prob more than the FG-42’s made.

Also their previous game had a ton of limited/prototype stuff as end tier stuff or things that barely saw any use.

The point was if they keep it in it should be infantry only and cost 2 infantry slots on the guy to use it instead of 1, since having such a weapon would be costly to field.

I believe they should be assault/lmg weapons not an all class weapon. HECK I think only infantry should be able to run semi-auto rifles, as they’re a pointless class to have.

10

Looking only at weapon production numbers and numbers issued is misleading. There is a lot more to it than that.

I would like to see authentic squads in Enlisted that use the table of organization and equipment that their nation used in a certain time frame. That is not only the best solution, but it is also the most fair and authentic solution.

- If authentic squads are not going to be introduced in Enlisted then there should be no exception to the current Enlisted rule: Enlisted soldier classes that belong to the same side in an Enlisted campaign have access to all weapons of that side.

If that rule applies to some sides in Enlisted then it has to apply to all sides in Enlisted. No exceptions for the FG 42, the StG 44 etc. The main “exception” certain forum members are arguing for on this forum is to limit German weapons that the allies had no counterpart to, as long as it is in favour of the allies that is. Enlisted is not chess however where both sides must be fully “equal”.

Like I stated earlier: I would like to see authentic squads in Enlisted that use the table of organization and equipment that their nation used in a certain time frame.

That is “asymetric authentic balance”.

These sort of forum topics which mainly argue for a limit to unique German weapons like the FG 42 are becoming a trend. The M2 Carbine is really not that important in this respect, because the ammunition that the M2 Carbine used was too weak in real life. The M2 Carbine was inferior to both the FG 42 and the StG 44 not only in terms of capabilites but also due to the weaker ammunition that the M2 Carbine used. Be that as it may, the M2 was for all intents and purposes not used by combat units in Europe.

Currently these sort of topics focus on the FG 42. Before that we had the “limit” the MP 41, Puma etc. and it is very likely that we will soon get “limit” the StG 44 topics.

I see the “only [X] amount of [insert weapon name here] were produced” non-argument
being brought forward on the forum by forum members regularly.

It is a non-argument.

Focusing only on weapon production data is misleading.

One cannot look only at the production numbers of a weapon and take that as an “average” for the frontline combat soldier of a nation. That is not how it works in the military, it is more complex than that.

Military units and soldiers that do not see combat are also issued weapons that are produced for them. But these weapons should not count for the game Enlisted because they are used by non-combat units and non-combat soldiers. The only thing that counts for a game such as Enlisted are the weapons issued to combat units and combat soldiers because they are the ones that actually do the fighting.

- In the USSR armed forces 80 pecent of the soldiers were in combat units in WW2, meaning that 80 percent of the fireams issued to USSR soldiers were actually used by combat units.

- In the armed forces of the USA only 23 percent of the soldiers were in combat units in WW2, meaning only 23 percent of the firearms issued to soldiers of the USA were actually used by combat units.

- In the German Wehrmacht (=Armed Forces) 40 percent of the soldiers were in combat units in WW2, meaning that 40 percent of the firearms issued to German soldiers were actually used by combat units. And the best and most modern German weapons like the FG 42 and StG 44 etc. were ONLY issued to combat units (except for some training units and when being en route to depots, in storage, workshops, factories etc.). The oldest weapons, inferior weapons, captured weapons, second rate weapons etc. generally all went to soldiers in German non-combat units. German frontline combat units during WW2 would typically be ordered to hand in their older/obsolete weapons and other older/obsolete equipment and they were then issued newer, better weapons etc. as replacements for them.

One has to keep that in mind when looking at production numbers because that is FAR, FAR more important than actual number of weapons produced and issued.

The key thing to remember is that weapons like the FG 42 and StG 44 went to actual combat units that really used them in combat. Unlike weapons like the M1 Carbine etc. that typically were more likely to end up in the hands of non-combat units. The M1 Carbine was generally issued on the basis of 1 M1 Carbine per US rifle platoon and mostly to non-combat units. The same applies to the M2 Carbine in WW2 and in Enlisted. Not only were only about 500 or so M2 Carbines issued during WW2 but it gets even more silly when one realizes that the few M2 Carbines that were issued in late 1944 and 1945 were mostly issued in the Pacific and not even in Europe. One thing is certain: the FG 42 and StG 44 were widely used by frontline combat troops in Normandy in 1944, the M2 Carbine was not used there and not even the M1 Carbine saw widespread use in the hands of frontline combat troops.

Take for example the Lanchester Machine Pistol (submachine gun) that is included in Enlisted. About 100,000 or so were made and basically all of them were issued to the British and British Commonwealth navies, so the vast majority of them went to non-combat units. There are currently no British and British Commonwealth navy units in Enlisted yet the Lanchester is in the game. In the Enlisted Normandy campaign you can equip all allied soldiers that can carry Machine Pistols with them. That includes assaulters, tank crews, pilots etc. Clearly one could argue that the Lanchester was mostly a non-combat weapon that has no place in a combat game such as Enlisted, especially so because there are no in British and British Commonwealth navy units Enlisted.

The FG 42 however was a weapon used almost exclusively by frontline combat units. If the FG 42 is to be limited to Fallschirmjäger of the Luftwaffe in Enlisted (the Waffen SS also had Fallschirmjäger by the way) then the Lanchester would also have to be limited to the British and Commonwealth navies in Enlisted. And then the M1 Carbine and M2 Carbine would also have to be limited to those few people in combat units that were issued the M1 Carbine and M2 Carbine in real life in a US rifle platoon and in Europe. When that is going to be done in Enlisted we might as well remove the M1 Carbine and M2 Carbine completely from the game. Which in the case of the M2 should not even have been included in the Normandy campaign at all, except maybe for Beta Testing the M2 for an upcoming Pacific campaign with the USA versus Japan.

If the FG 42 is going to be limited based on authenticity then ALL weapons in Enlisted will have to be limited based on authenticity. It cannot be justified in Enlisted to artificially limit the use of weapons that were used in real life in significant numbers by combat troops such as the FG 42, StG 44 etc. simply because they are German weapons which the allies had no counter to. Enlisted does not have to be chess where both sides have to have exactly the same.

If you were in a German Sturm Gruppe (=Assault Squad) in late 1944 which was equipped with the StG 44 for example than practically ALL soldiers in your assault squad would be equipped with the StG 44. If you were in 2. Fs.Jg.Div. etc. than you could be in squads equipped with the FG 42.

That is why I would like to see Enlisted use authentic squads that use the real world table of organization and equipment of each nation.

Some examples.

The M1 Carbine was generally issued on the basis of 1 M1 Carbine per US rifle platoon, so that is 1 in about 40 men. If the FG 42 is going to be limited issue in Enlisted then the M1 Carbine basically has no place in the game based on there being only 1 M1 Carbine per US rifle platoon in real life! The M2 Carbine falls in this same category as the M1 Carbine and the few M2 Carbines that were issued were issued very late in WW2 after the Normandy 1944 campaign and mostly if not exclusively in the Pacific and not in Europe.

A U.S. Army Rifle Squad in 1944 consisted of:

  • 1 Squad Leader (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 1 Assistant Squad Leader (armed with a M1 Rifle and a M7 Grenade Launcher)
  • 1 Automatic Rifleman (armed with a M1918A2 BAR)
  • 1 Assistant Automatic Rifleman (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 1 Ammo Bearer (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 2 Rifle Grenadiers (armed with a M1 Rifle and a M7 Grenade Launcher)
  • 5 Riflemen (armed with a M1 Rifle)

A U.S. Army Parachute Rifle Squad in 1944 consisted of:

  • 1 Squad Leader (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 1 Assistant Squad Leader (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 1 Machine Gunner (armed with a M1919A4 Machine Gun and a M1A1 Carbine)
  • 1 Assistant Machine Gunner (armed with a M1A1 Carbine)
  • 1 Ammo Bearer (armed with a M1 Rifle)
  • 7 Riflemen (armed with a M1 Rifle)

In late 1943 and early 1944 a MP 43/1 (= StG 44) Sturm Zug (Assault Platoon) at full strength had 17 MP 43/1 and was typically composed of:

  • Zug Trupp (Platoon Troop) consisting of 1:5 men, consisting of
    1 Platoon Leader armed with a MP 43/1
    2 Messengers each armed with a MP 43/1
    2 Drivers each armed with a Kar 98 k or a Gewehr/Kar 43
    1 Medic armed with a P 38
  • The 1. Sturm Gruppe (1st Assault Squad) consisting of 1:8 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a MP 43/1
    6 soldiers each armed with a MP 43/1
    1 soldier armed with a Kar 43 ZF (Karabiner 43 mit Zielfernrohr, a Carbine with 4x magnification telescopic sight)
    1 soldier armed with a Kar 98 k with a Gewehrgranatengerät (rifle grenade device).
  • The 2. Sturm Gruppe (2nd Assault Squad) consisting of 1:8 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a MP 43/1
    6 soldiers each armed with a MP 43/1
    1 soldier armed with a Kar 43 ZF (Karabiner 43 mit Zielfernrohr, a Carbine with 4x magnification telescopic sight)
    1 soldier armed with a Kar 98 k with a Gewehrgranatengerät (rifle grenade device).
  • The 3. Gruppe (3rd Squad) consisting of 1:8 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a MP 40
    6 Soldiers each armed with a Kar 98 k or a Gewehr/Kar 43
    2 Soldiers each equipped with a MG 42 and a P 38

In late 1944 each StG 44 equipped Sturm Zug (Assault Platoon) at full strength had 25 StG 44 and was typically composed of:

  • Zug Trupp (Platoon Troop) consisting of 1:8 men, consisting of
    1 Platoon Leader armed with a StG 44
    2 Messengers each armed with a StG 44
    3 Soldiers each armed with a Kar 98 k with a Gewehrgranatengerät (rifle grenade device)
    2 Drivers each armed with a Kar 98 k or a Kar 43
    1 Medic armed with a P 38
  • The 1. Sturm Gruppe (1st Assault Squad) consisting of 1:7 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a StG 44
    7 Soldiers each armed with a StG 44
  • The 2. Sturm Gruppe (2nd Assault Squad) consisting of 1:7 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a StG 44
    7 Soldiers each equipped with a StG 44
  • The 3. Sturm Gruppe (Assault Squad) consisting of 1:7 men, consisting of
    1 Squad Leader armed with a StG 44
    5 Soldiers each armed with a StG 44
    2 Soldiers each armed with a MG 42 and a P 38

Clearly the M1 Carbine was not at all used by U.S. Army Rifle Squads and was in very limited use by U.S. Army Parachute Rifle Squads, while German Sturm Gruppen (Assault Squads) were practically fully equipped with the StG 44. And so it should be in Enlisted if it is to be authentic.

The above makes clear that only looking at weapon production numbers is misleading.

There is a lot more to it than that.

1 Like
11

i mean, Fg42 of that type, only 5’000 were issued. the others 4000 models or maybe more, were from different types. as such, those are special weapons. and should have been in the gold weapon orders.

i mean, i’m happy that we get to use them, but we are reaching a point where it’s unlogical being able to fill our soldiers with fgs left and right to branch and units that never received.

well, this goes against balance wise. i don’t think it’s gonna be fun watching germans with 90% of the weapons bolt actions, and americans with 80% of semi automatic rifles.

yes, but actually no.

weather it’s arguablle truee that you can’t always find a counter part, here comes the balance.
doesn’t make sense making weapons of one side much stronger than the other. it would complealty ruin the game for everyone, and does not follow any rules.

well, that’s your opinion.
but i’m not willing to see nor play that for my regard.

well, as somewhat of a german main, i can agree on that. ( about limiting those weapons) because it wouldn’t be balance, and logical at all.

i used the m2, and it’s an ok weapon. but this should not be even present in enlisted just like the jumbo.
historical accurate or not, those should not be present at all.

i think it’s quite different from the one shown.

foor this regard, that’s why on moscow there are no t34s and no kv1s ( yet ). because it wouldn’t be fun nor balanced.

despite how many cannons you could give to germany.

it’s not a matter about real life counter part weapons, but balance for the game.

haven’t seen many of them to be honest.

the only 1 that actually made sense, was the one made from @73507743 about:
The "BIG" suggestion dedicated to new OBT players

which limiting certain weapons was a viable choises.

well, it kinda is.

because otherwise you would see lots of infantry with 1 type of weapon that wasn’t mass produced.

that’s why people grind for certain things at end tier. because they are strong as they have to be. but it’s non logical to give it to everyone.

i don’t get it how it’s hard to understand for you.

no?

no doubt.

but otherwise for the previous reasons said, i don’t think anyone would like weapons mulfunctioning or tanks that breaks just because you drove faster than what your tank could have handled.

it’s using common sense for a video game that tries to be realistic.

well, judging by how some germany premium squads are equipped and treaten, there it goes your answer.

mp18s and bars…

that is because we are currently testing those weapons for upcoming campaigns.
that’s why americans in normandy are using british weapons.

i mean, great work in researching all this stuff. point is,

just for the said reasons above, it cannot be done.

enlisted tries to be realistic, not simulative.

and speaking of a game, it has to follow it’s own rule of balance dictate by fun.

because for how much historicall can be having a squad full of stg, it’s not going to be fun for anyone. nor balanced.

those are ok(ish) setup squads.

but we didn’t got any because those are much different from the whole game.

i don’t know what to tell you more than enlisted is realistic, not simulative.

12

Not to mention the rule of same caliber = same damage works

Kar98k 7 damage @ 300m
Kar98k with a scope?, 7 damage @ 1000m

so putting a scope on increases the bullet effectiveness?

240mm artillery barrage? Tickles if it lands in front of you
80mm artillery or 34mm cannon? annihilates the existence of anything in the same postal code

Player 7.62 LMG, hipfire laser, recoil like a garand, one shots people with the same effective range of semi-autos, making things like the FG-42 and gunner squad, just do the same thing as every an infantry and assault can do.
Tank mounted 7.62 LMG… sprays takes 3-4 shots to kill a player?

13

So they obviously rebalance stuff for fun, imo LMG’s need a rework too now finally getting around to levelling them, they’re essentially an assault trooper without the disadvantage at range.

14

It’s not a thing.

Example;

Weather the main thread is a bit old, comments are still accountable.

Some of them make sense, ( such as the tank mg ), others, mo so much.

But nontheless tries to follow a principle. Or used to follow…

Pretty much.

What are you talking about?

Which rework do you want them to have?

15

They need to rework lmg damage in the current system.

Tell me the difference between an LMG and the semi-auto rifles in Enlisted? Other than it’s automatic and the larger clip (and less recoil.)

They’re literally the same stat for stat. This becomes a big issue now because look at the FG42 semi auto and Geweher? I can tell you
FG has 10 more rounds
FG has less recoil
FG has the same damage
Same with BAR/MG42/38/Bren.

They’re not new guns, they’re straight upgrades.

Thats my big issues guns dont feel like they have a role they’re good at. There is

LMG’s

LMG’s that can’t 1 hit cough I mean smg’s

LMG’s that cant go full auto and have small clips cough I mean semi-auto rifles

Bolt actions are just really slow semi-auto rifles unless you put a scope than it can take people out in one shot from 800m.

16

Er, unlike the smg you can kill with just a few bullpens from greater distance?

Isn’t that the main point?

As a regular g43 and fg 42 II, both are pretty much different.

The fg 42 II is also full auto unless the g43.

But, I agree that it might replace the scoped g43 due to how good it is. Although, recoil really depends from how can control it, and how much your weapons is upgraded.

Because, the g43 has less recoil.

Yes, something that I don’t particularly like, is that end tier weapon are better by any means insthead of behind different just to make the players plays something different.

And I don’t like it.

I mean, I am no expert with guns and stuff, but getting shot from an sub machine is not the same about getting hit from an lmg.

Well. People still use bolt action because they do more dagame over the distance.

Weather sometimes semi auto requires 2/3 bullets.

17

Er, unlike the smg you can kill with just a few bullpens from greater distance? Isn’t that the main point?

Alright if the LMG has a ttk of 0 since 1 shot kill and laser pointer aim. SMG has a ttk of 2-3 bullets. So if an was holding a spot, and you run into him with an LMG. You win, because you one shot him as you both fire at each other.

SMG the king of CCQ? more like not an LMG and therefore assault is a bad LMG.

LMG is the king in CQC.

As a regular g43 and fg 42 II, both are pretty much different.The fg 42 II is also full auto unless the g43.

Tap the button, boom 1 bullet. Set it to single fire boom. Also has an emergency full auto mode, less recoil, more bullets, same damage.

The FG-42 is a pure upgrade from the semi-auto rifle. What you can do with a G43, you can do with an FG-42 AND can be a full auto hipfire beast unlike the G43.

I mean, I am no expert with guns and stuff, but getting shot from an sub machine is not the same about getting hit from an lmg.

Alright now tell me a reason to run assault if LMG does SMG’s job better. Gunner is just better assault.

Well. People still use bolt action because they do more damage over the distance.

They usually die, or the campers who don’t go on the objective but get picked off by snipers. Yes and pointed out most objectives are in an 0-25m arena with an 0-50m engagement arena around it. Usually with an 0-180 m 1 shot range. The only time you really see those white marks are on Normandy because the map isn’t cluttered with shit so you can see and hit people 200m+

18

I’m back from prison! Let’s see

Imo even 2 FG’s is too much

And just like @ErikaKalkbrenner said:

For the m2 carbine, I agree with this:

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