ERA based Progression/Matchmaking/Campaign system (redone)

Repost of an old thread, but with a twist.

TL;DR:

Have a year based matchmaker where each “campaign” would simply be categorized roughly by year, instead of predefined weapons + nations, allowing for better representation of minor nations to play as and minor conflicts/maps to fight on.

The main idea

Instead of having 4 campaigns we got currently, we would have a mix of these large campaigns, as well as smaller campaigns. Large campaigns would include Pacific, Battle of the Bulge, Stalingrad, Invasion of Italy etc in addition to the 4 we have, while small campaigns would be things like A Second Sino-Japanese War campaign, or a Winter War campaign. Each campaign would have a list of possible participants, as well as a “star rating” indicating its era, with campaigns taking place later in the war having a higher rating.

Star rating

This would be a slight modification to the current “stars” we have ingame already. The ones we see on soldiers, and weapons. Weapons that are more powerful have a higher star rating and upgrading them also increases the amount of stars they have. However, there would be more stars, up to around 10. And each star would have less impact on upgrade cost etc than we would have currently. More on this later.

Matchmaking

Matchmaking would be based on the highest “star rating” among your squads, and will match the range of star ratings of the campaigns. For example, Normandy would have a range of 6-8 stars, with 6 stars excluding some of the more rare/powerful stuff like MP-43 or Panther tanks, while those would be allowed in the 8 star matches. This also means that players with gear of 9-10 stars would not be able to participate in Normandy. For ease of matchmakers, players with only a few stars less than the campaign amount can also participate, meaning that players with 4-6 stars could occasionally get into a match in Normandy. These could be considered as “uptiers”, similar to War Thunder. My suggestion is a maximum uptier of +2 stars, but this is adjustable.

Weapon upgrades

Weapon upgrades would mostly stay as is. You disassemble spare weapons and use those to upgrade weapons to get bonus stats. These bonus stats will increase the star rating of the weapon, meaning that you cannot use these upgraded guns in campaigns with low star ratings such as Moscow. This would act as newbie protection.

Soldier upgrades

Again, can stay as is. Except every even star would increase perk slot capacity by 1, and each uneven star increase perk point capacity, to keep soldiers from getting too powerful at 10 stars. Again, prevents low star soldiers from fighting in early campaigns.

Squad upgrades

I am not quite sure how I want to handle these, as fully upgraded squads definitely do have an advantage over stock squads. I think simply giving the squad +1 star for each soldier in them beyond the base 4 (or whatever the amount will be after the squad reworks) should do enough, with the exception that troopers do not give these extra stars. Should give only a minor bonus to experienced players at most in early campaigns.

Campaign upgrades/progression

of course, this system would prevent the current campaign based progression from working. So instead, each nation will get one of these upgrade trees, instead of axis/allies per campaign. The major nations such as Russia, America, Brittan and Germany will of course have much more levels than minor nations, because there are much more weapons / vehicles to unlock. As such, I think a maximum of 100k XP per level should be okay, if using the same leveling rate as we got currently

Monetization / Premium squads

The current premium squads would be moved into the “shared” progression set for their nation, and all star ratings would still apply to them. One thing that may be added to them, however, is increased XP gain for their nation’s campaign tech tree, similar to how premium time does so right now. Hopefully the amount of “P2W” aspects from various mechanics will be reduced drastically thanks to the matchmaker system.

New players playing late campaigns

Some new players might want to play the late era / high star rating campaigns, but might not want to grind through the entire early section of progression. As a solution to this I think for every 2-3 stars, there are “demonstration squads” that you can opt to queue with instead of your normal squads. These squads would offer 1 Assaulter, 1 Engineer and 1 Tanker squad upgraded to that tier of progression. They would not be modifiable in any way, shape or form, but be competitive enough to give you a fun time in the late era campaigns until you can unlock them.

List of possible campaigns

Nations not included in this list will not be able to join matches of that specific campaign!!! This list merely suggest star ratings, they are all open to change, of course. But they are included to give you a general idea of the “power level” of each campaign, in rough chronological order:

  • Invasion of Poland: Has 2 subcategories. One would be Poland vs Soviets, the other would be Poland vs Germany. We can also have a Liberation of Poland campaign on the same map, with Poland + Soviets vs Germany with a higher star rating. Star rating would be 1 on this one.
  • Invasion of France: Can use some of the Normandy maps, but also should include maps around the Maginot line. It would be France + Brittan vs Germany. Star rating: 1-2.
  • Second Sino-Japanese war: Japan vs China. Star rating: 1-3.
  • Moscow: Already exists. Would have Germany vs Soviets, with a star rating of 2-4.
  • Winter War: Finnish vs Soviets. Star rating: 2-4.
  • Pacific War: USA vs Japan. Star rating: 2-4.
  • Tunesia: Already confirmed/in development. Brittan + USA vs Germany + Italy. Star rating: 2-4.
  • Battle of Kharkov: Would include both first and second battle on the same maps. Germany vs Soviets. Star ratings: 2-4 / 5-7.
  • Stalingrad: Another Germany vs Soviets “map pack” essentially. Star rating: 3-5.
  • Kursk: Again, Germany vs Soviets. Star rating: 5-7.
  • El Alamein: Germany + Italy vs Brittan + USA. Star rating: 3-5.
  • Iwo Jima: Last combat for Japan vs USA. Star rating: 3-5.
  • Invasion of Italy: Canada + Brittan + USA vs Italy + Germany. Excludes Italy from participating in the higher star matches. Star rating: 4-8.
  • Normandy: Already exists, but would be expanded into Canada + Brittan + USA vs Germany. Star rating: 6-8.
  • Battle of the Bulge: Canada + Brittan + USA vs Germany. Star rating: 7-9.
  • Battle for the Rivers: Would include the battles near the Rhine, Elbe and the general Ruhr area. Last combat for Canada + Brittan + USA vs Germany. Star rating: 8-10.
  • Berlin: Last combat for Soviets vs Germany. Star rating: 8-10.

Why this?

Above all, it will allow more flexibility towards adding new campaigns. There is no need to copy paste a large amount of progression stuff into there, such as MP40s being available in practically every campaign that involves Germany. We also get the ability to have more nations in the game, including minor/obscure participants of WW2 such as Canada, China and Finland. It will also improve matchmaking as there won’t be hard separations between campaigns. If Normandy needs some more players, Tunisia “level” players might end up joining a Normandy match. Lastly, it will also protect new players against players that have progressed further.

Overall this is a rough rework of that previous suggestion and will need some adjustments. Please keep your feedback about it constructive in the issues you may see with this, so we can think of solutions to them as a group.

7 Likes

I like the current system we have with everything separated by campaign tbh. Even if it does come with an extra grind for the same things from a different campaign.
I don’t want to see Slavs on Normandy or Germans on Iwo Jima.
Dislike the idea of a BR style matchmaker as well.

1 Like

Seconding back after my original suggestion. This is the only way to continue development long-term without breaking up the playerbase too far.

2 Likes

See the campaign lists. You would not see Soviets on Normandy etc. You would only see the listed nations on those maps. Let me edit the post to further clarify this.

And is having no separation between fully upgraded squads and stock squads better than having this BR styled MM?

2 Likes

So long as we’re not doing mixed shit like WT I’m fine.

I don’t mind fully upgraded vs not upgraded.
Fully stock squads could use a bit off coddling until they have more than four men though. :+1:

Wouldn’t it be easier to fix weapon progression and upgrade systems?
So new weapons are not better than old ones but different.

2 Likes

I second this

I would think so; I forsee too much minmaxing with that type of BR manipulation.

1 Like

There isn’t much min-maxing to do if it uses maximum stars. So if you take a gun that is 6 stars, it does not matter whether the rest of your gear is 3 or 5 stars. So in theory it would only punish the players who want to rush/pay to best gear without upgrading the rest alongside it.

I think most of you can agree that war thunder’s BR system’s issue do not come from the system itself. It comes from a bad way of setting up up/down tiers, as well as compression and vehicles with wrong BRs such as Leo at 7.3 etc.

Atm the game says that a fully upgraded MP41 is perfectly balanced against a stock MP28. This “BR” system would let you either have an upgraded MP28 with bonus damage and firerate etc, or a non upgraded MP38, which would have the extra fire rate by default because it is a better gun.

2 Likes

I would even support this idea, but knowing how much pain “downtier/uptier” logic caused in WT, I just cannot.
Also I don´t really like the idea of locking players from certain campaigns “because they got more/less stars” until they gamble out lower/higher gear I presume?
I always believed, that one of the Enlisted´s main traits was the ability of player to choose what they want to play and when… not being automaticaly kicked up/down by WW2 years because their gear is not good/bad enough.

4 Likes

In principle this would only be a rework to matchmaker system, as well as adjusting some stats of weapons (star ratings). It would be a lot less work-intensive than completely rework the upgrade and progression system to not be strictly better stuff only.

Also, weren’t you the person who made the original idea?

If we want to split the campaigns in a different way than campaings, we need a way to quantify how good stuff is. And to make matchmaking time short enough for this to me viable, we need to let MM pick from a small range of said quantified power levels.

Basically a German players would not have a good time in Berlin without MP40s or better gear. Unless we make the campaigns completely split and have one side max out at the MP40 (moscow) while the other starts at MP40, aka current system, we would have to let them unlock that gear over time. And once they got that gear they would be ready to play on that campaign. That is why I am suggesting a lot of more minor campaigns so you can still see a large variety of maps with the lower end gear.

It also gives a more natural progression of power.

Again, it is not perfect, but I imagine preventing stock squads from seeing premium squads in Moscow unless fully “uptiered” would at least partially improve the situation compared to facing premium squads 100% of the time. if you got a better way of handling matchmaker and quantifying how good a player is without completely splitting campaigns, I’d love to hear it.

That is all nice and fancy but if I´m for example looking forward to "Winter War, Invasion of Italy and Berlin… I´am forced to gamble out THREE sets of different “star” gear in order to have chance for matchmaker to place me in desired campaign while I also risk being “uptiered” and face campaign with higher upgrade standards with my generaly inferior weapons?
That is also one of the reasons why I play WT less and less.

I mean if it would be ERA only based matchmaker (aka not enough people in winter war? let´s slap there people from Moscow too if they have too much soviets, unless they chose the “preffered” campaign), it would be better because people are still having some sort of freedom.

1 Like

I don’t think so. Or I don’t understand sth.

My biggest fear is that nobody will play low lvl campaigns because players always want better stuff. So they will get better stuff, go to higher campaign etc. leaving low lvl to small group of enthusiasts.

2 Likes

So Dark Souls style matchmaking if I understand correctly?

Isn´t dark souls matchmaking based mostly on soul level categories?

You are currently guaranteed to see the superior weapons. So this would only be an improvement.
We could add a filter that will prevent you from seeing certain campaigns if you do not want to?

Ideally the gambling part would be removed.
I do have to agree what we will have to find a way outside of premium squads of letting new players experience later campaigns. Maybe have “demonstration squads”? Taking this idea from Mechwarrior Online, where you can get lineups of mechs with decent loadouts that let you experience the higher tiers. Similarly, these squads would give ZERO editing of the squads, but they would allow you to experience of the later squads.

Example could be “late war german lineup”:
MP40 squad
MG34 squad
late war engineer squad
These would be strong enough to hold their own, but not more powerful than what you could get if you grind to that part of the progression tree.

I have no clue how that one works chief. I was thinking basically like War Thunder, but no post-war tanks in WW2 and limits to what nations can see what maps. Also upgrades / loadouts able to affect “br”

Levels aside because that’s not important here, Dark Souls matchmakes you partially based on the best gear you have available and how far that gear is upgraded.

Then why each campaign can´t have three star level categories (new/intermediate/veteran) in order to give everyone ability to play campaign they want instead being forced to either stay at low upgrade level or being barred from lower campaigns.
That can also get combined with ERA matchmaking (if “preffered campaign” option will be also available).