Declutter the German Tech Tree

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Hello friends,

Today I would like to present my idea to reduce the filler, bloat and clutter in the German Tech Tree.

My goal with this post is to start a conversation about reducing the grind and re-focusing the German Tree on German stuff instead of it being a dumping ground for every other axis nation (Italy, Romania and Hungary).

I will try to explain the reason why I foldered, moved, and removed each item that I did. Warning I removed A LOT, so please do not get a bruised ego if I removed your favorite variant of [insert vehicle or gun here]. I tried to look at everything objectively, and if it didnt provide any added value, in terms gameplay or historical significance, it was axxed.

One of the first things you will notice is that all the Italian weapons, vehicles and the Italian premium squads are also gone. This is because of two reasons. Number 1 because I think Italy should be its own faction in the game. If you don’t think this is possible click here. And number two because I think the Germans can stand on their own.

Some of the reasons for which I decided to remove content include the following:

  • It’s practically a duplicate of an existing Item in every function except asthetics. (MP 43/1)
  • It’s simply just a road block to get to the Item you actually want. (Sniper MKB)
  • It’s filler. (Almost everything Italian)
  • It’s Dumb! (Guerillas)

If you dont agree with the descitions I have made feel free to comment and we can work out a better solution. I’m all ears for good suggestions on this.

The Current Tree

German Tech Tree 2024
German Tech Tree 20244914×933 2.13 MB

The Decluttered Tree

Germany Debloated
Germany Debloated4872×936 1.76 MB

Breakdown by Tier

Tier 1

Germany Tier 1 Debloated

Changes:

Forldered

  • Manlicher M1895 paired with Vz.24

Removed

  • Gewehr 33/40 Honestly who would pick this over the K98k?
  • MP28 The first speed bump, doesn’t add anything that the more current MP34 doesn’t do.
  • K98k Kriegsmodell is just an uglier and nerfed K98k.
  • Pre-War K98k the buff over the regular K98k is too small to justify, it’s a speed bump on your way to your first Semi Auto.
  • Pz. III B just exists to be defeated by the T-60.
  • Romanian Planes were removed because they would have a better home in an Italian Tech Tree.
  • M30 Luftwaffe Drilling, @CaptainBeel pointed out how historically insignificant this “weapon” is.

Added

  • StuG III A, WTF DF…
Tier 2

Germany Tier 2 Debloated

Changes:

Foldered

  • Pz. III J1 & N
  • Stukas

Removed

  • Scoped Pre-war K98k, See Pre-War K98k reasons.
  • Pz. IV F1, redundant.
  • Ju 87 D-3, made redundant by Bf 110 F-2
  • Bf 109 F-2 Identical to F-1 except for the 15mm cannon.
  • Fw 190 A-1, made redundant by the A-4, only serves as speed bump.
Tier 3

Germany Tier 3 Debloated

Changes:

Foldered

  • Pz. IV F2 & J

Removed

  • Gewehr 98 with scope mount, name too long banished to the shadow realm. JK its just outdated filler.
  • Pz. IV G, filler.
  • Bf 110 C-7, speedbump, completely made redundant by the nearly identical F-2 variant.
Tier 4

Germany Tier 4 Debloated

Changes:

Foldered

  • Pz. IV J & H
  • Panther A & G

Removed

  • MG 42, made superfluos by the MG 42 100.

  • M38A, yes the Germans loved it but it was Italian.

  • Bf 109 G-10, no bombs lol.

Tier 5

Germany Tier 5 Debloated

Changes:

Removed

  • Sniper MKb 42(H), speed bump on the way to the Sniper STG, seriously, who uses this after unlocking the STG?
  • MP 43/1, literally the same as the STG 44 except fo the name.
  • Kiraly 39M, would go to Italian Tech Tree
  • MG 15, it was cope for not having a 100 round MG 42.
  • Panzer IV & IV/70(A), filler.
  • Fw 190 A-8, no bombs.
  • Bf 109 G-14, filler.
8 Likes
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Thank you for your post.

I agree the Axis tree is too cluttered.

I also support a separate Italian (+ other Axis nations) tree (and separate UK-Commonwealth tree).

I like the idea of removing a lot of it. Funny how there’s many here I’m not even missing.

I will say that the Luftwaffe Drilling seems clutter to me. It was a survival weapon for Luftwaffe crews based on a hideously incorrect understanding of ‘Africa’. It wasn’t designed to be used on the frontline, I dont know if it even was used on the frontline.
I know all the tech trees have shotguns, maybe there’s a more appropriate German shotgun that could replace it?

I’d also keep the M1895 Mannlicher. For one thing it’s an awesome rifle. The other main reason is it is Austrian and therefore most appropriate in the German tech tree.

I’m glad you kept the Vz.24.

See I personally hate the Kar98k and Gewehr 33/40 sights. The Mannlicher and Vz.24 sights are much better imo.

Providing players with at least 3 different options for rifles is good.

I like that you removed the pre-war kar98k that is such a pointless and bizarre thing.

Also good that the MP38 is removed like it’s okay and was used but it’s so similar to the MP40 it’s like why not just have the MP40 since that’s what every player’s going to use. (same situation as the BARs in Allied tree)

Overall your idea just looks better visually too, much easier to understand.

There’s also plenty of tech leftover for a Italian (+ other Axis) tree (not to mention the tech that could be added to a new Italian tree like more Hungarian, Romanian and Finnish weapons)

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Hey, thank you for the positive feedback,

I hear you on the Drilling, maybe it wouldve been better if it is removed. Like you said it was a survival tool not a frontline weapon. I will make the change.

the Manlicher 1895 and the MP 38 are still there. Maybe I am misunderstanding you.

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Oh right yeah sorry I just looked at the visuals and didnt read the fine print! haha. Yeah Mannlicher M1895 foldered with Vz.24 is fine.

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I really don’t like this as much. Yes, few items could be foldered. But that’s pretty much all.

Removing stuff just for the sake newbies getting to higher BRs faster is really not good thing.

Btw. It’s called tech tree for reason. It shouldn’t be just boring dull lines with few items.

Plus I really hate this current trend to complete nullify any kind of grind the game has.

Won’t happen.

We are literally going to have option to change nationalites of soldiers.
Why would they even bother with such feature if seperate Italian/Brit tech trees are planned.

They’re not planned. Devs said it several times. Stop pushing nonsensical agendas.

Big and vast tech tree = good tech tree. We just need more folders.

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You are probably the only person that has ever held this opinion.

They said they MIGHT do that almost a year ago. How hard is it that it hasn’t already implemented?

They are overwhelmingly popular ideas. The WT devs said the same thing about independantly Italy until they made Independant Italy. So I am holding out hope.

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It’s funny how those people are all the same, all they do is meta chasing. Doesn’t even matter if it’s German or not. xD

Well, in that case M1895 doesn’t belong to “German” tech tree mate. :man_shrugging:

They are always using just some kind of absurd inconsistent justification to push their agendas.

It’s completely obvious OP is just meta chaser and he doesn’t want to bother to play anything that’s not good enough for him.

He just want to skip the experience we all had - to go through whole spectrum of weapons and equipment to get to meta weapons and equipment in the end

It’s not about having non German stuff in German tech tree or so (btw. This tech tree should be seriously renamed to European Axis).
It’s about skipping stuff he doesn’t want to play.

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Then why did you kept both MP38 and MP40? Huh? :man_shrugging: It’s literally the same case to MP43 and StG44.

All I see is just extreme number of inconsistencies.

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My guy I unlocked the whole tree… Those pictures are screenshots that I edited from my client.

I knew I needed a trigger warning for guys like you… :man_facepalming:

Calling me a meta-chaser is hilarious. I play mainly Italian squads and weapons, and Japan because I enjoy playing the underdog.

I think you might be projecting a tiny bit.

Yes it does, Austria was absorbed into the 3rd Reich and over a million Austrians where conscripted into the Wehrmacht lmao. But as I did more research I can see that it would probably be better in an Italian tree as a Hungarian weapon.

As for the Vz.24, After the occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1938, the Germans took existing stocks of the vz.24 into service under the designation Gewehr 24(t) (‘t’ being the national origin designator tschechoslowakisch , the German word for “Czechoslovak”; such national origin designators were German practice for all foreign weapons taken into service).

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You’re acting in bad faith. @Adamnpee

Emphasis on historical significance, if the MP 41 was in the game I would’ve kept it as well

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However it is a fair point, despite your antagonizing tone.

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Okay. I apologize.

In that case, I’ve badly assumed your intent.

Which is to push a separate tech tree for each minor nation.

And using this argument with “over cluttered” tech trees as one of your points in your argumentation. :man_shrugging:

I highly doubt so. Italian equipment is very limited and it’s not fun to play the same things over and over again.

Japan is anything but an underdog.

  • It has one of the best infantry weapons pools. (It only suffers from bad semi rifles, which is completely irrelevant, as it doesn’t take very long to rebuild a BR 3-4)
  • Japan has the best SF rifle, which can replace the role of missing AR quite easily.
  • Their BR2 AT launchers can destroy any US tank. Just on jumbo to super pershing they have to go from that side.
  • They have absolutely great BR5 fighters
  • They have a sword for every soldier, they have lunge mines with 180 pene…
  • They have one of the best player base. (if not the best)

Hungary is not Italy. :man_shrugging: And Enlisted is not WT.

I still fail to see difference between case of MP38/MP40 and MP43/StG44.

Because I am triggered.

I really fail to see what’s so beneficial in having “uncluttered” tech tree. And even more so in having seperate tech trees for each minor nation.

Seperate tech trees for minor nations are nonsense. I will no longer be allowed to combine squads and equipments from several nations. Even though they fought side by side pretty commonly.
Just another unnecessary restriction for this awesome WW2 sandbox…
No, thanks.

They are already giving the copypasted captured AT Launchers for tech trees in need of better AT weapons… Separating those trees into individual minor nations would eventually mean exactly that. Just inevitably more copy paste in the name of balance.

Enlisted is not WT. Enlisted is its own thing. You should respect it.

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I guess this screenshot speaks for itself, that preset is my main set up.

image
image780×1064 162 KB

You’re absolutely right, which is why i have called for the nerfing of the Type Hei Auto and the Removal of the Ho-Ri many times.

True, of course. But they would complement eachother splendidly.

I’m working on it. probably for tommorow its 4am here.

These are good points. I admit it does make me reconsider my opinion on this.

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I have my own Italian preset as well. But it doesn’t mean I am playing it often.
Still waiting for Italian APC.

Huh?

Just like is German (aka European Axis) tech tree now. :man_shrugging: And there’s no reason in dividing it between several minor tech trees.

Thank you.

I wouldn’t be against specific minor naitonbranches (aka sub tech trees) to be added into current tech trees.

It’s obvious devs wasn’t focusing on minor nations since release of merge (without few exceptions like Chinese premium squad and French event squad).
And there’s definitely potential here for the future.

Regarding the so-called “clutter”.

This could be solved quite simply. And I think I’ve already written this somewhere before.

As we are speaking, currently are tech trees divided into Tiers. These Tiers do not have much meaning. They’re just currently conceptualized as a sort of protection against rushing through the whole tree exping only one line. (Without ever touching other lines). Since you always need a certain amount of equipment to unlock the next tier

My idea is this. That once you’ve unlocked the next tier. You could start grinding any line in that new tier.

Example:

In tier 1 you were only interested in the rifle line, the smg line and the MG line.
Once you researched and purchased them, you would have enough items to unlock the second tier.

But in this new tier, you could choose to start with any line from scratch. For example, the tank line. Even if you didn’t touch the tank line in the first level.
(But if you wanted the last tank of the first level, you would still have to grind the entire tank line in the first level).

I hope this description is clear. My english is not very good rn. The more tired I am, the worse english I have.

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But look at all the Italian Premium squads I have. I spent a ton of money on Italy because I love playing them so much.

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I appreciate the concept of this, but I think there’s a lot of meta items (Italian or otherwise) removed in your tree, but aren’t substituted. Best example is the SMG situation in unlock tiers 2 and 3, where your only options are MP 3008, MP 38, and MP 40. I would at least consider foldering MP 38 and MP 40, moving MP.35/I from BR 4 to BR 2, and place all of those within BR 2 unlock, and move ZK 383 to BR 3. Then MP.SS.42 could be placed at BR 4. 72 round magazine, 600RPM (allegedly), 9x19mm parabellum.

Imgur
Imgur

This comes from a place of wanting to see the Germany tree decluttered as well. I appreciate your effort put into the post!

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The idea behind this is solid, however I’d like it more if each tiers are just non linear amalgamation of axis weapons and vehicles in the same power and characteristics so players can choose whatever gun/vehicle from whatever country they want.

This will help @CaptainBeel with his generic squad idea so players can quickly build whatever faction lineup they want. However, to move to the next tier of weapons and vehicles players would need to unlock certain amount of items first as to not allow clueless beginners to rise too rapidly to BR V and ruining the match even more like they did with BR II

The same goes for Allies tech tree.

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Great suggestion. The MP 35 also never made any sense to me. I will implement your recomendations.

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it’s hard to point out how wrong this thread is on so many level.
and i can’t see to why as anyone would agree on removing things.

that’s why foldering is essential.

i can tell you they will not put in the bin things they have worked on.

as devs stated, there will be no italian or UK tech tree.

which it’s just dumb too.

people who want to mix units will not be able too. and nothing limits you to just not use them.
again, we have lot of equipment which are worth of being subfolders. but out righted removed just because you don’t like them?
no.

because again, if you don’t like them or don’t find any reason to use them,
then don’t use them.

and it doesn’t seems op really understand the implication behind such drastic changes.

aka, do you think people will be happy to find out they wasted so much time grinding stuff that it would then be removed?

as it goes for the premium items, i don’t have much to say.

i do think some premium such as the stug III A, su-76, chi-ha, m8 greyhound and churchill should be TT tanks. but i don’t make the rules.

suffice to say, it can be all summed by " wishful thinking ".

yes, there are some serious foldering needed.
but no. removing items is not the answer.

especially just because they aren’t " meta ".
not everything has to be.

p.s. funny how many things were removed for being " redundant " yet the options available for each tier would literally make the whole gameplay redundant with little choices in between to use.

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While I agree with the sentiment for not only the german but also the allied and maybe the soviet tree.

Foldering is preferable to removal.

But my main annoyance here is we shouldnt have a split British and Italy tree, just have the axis faction and the Western Allies faction, and then like how subfactions work in WT, give them their own line where all that equipment can fit into.

Splitting the playerbase pointlessly is dumb, especially when both sides used each others weapons. And if you just want to say “well just add the shared weapon into both trees” that goes against your point of reducing the grind.

And to nit pick the BR’s as presented.

Tier 1

  • Isnt the Stug 3A already in game as a premium, idk how you could get DF to move that into the TT (As much as I would wish for it like the Chi-Ha)

Tier 2

  • I think you were a bit too ruthless with the weapons at tier 2, there could be a second rifle and SMG there.

  • Why on earth would you make these points and then place the Pz3 N in front of the Pz4 E, the N being a flat upgrade over the E. I would instead recommend the Pz3 N be moved to BR3 with its late war HEAT shell and rebalanced shell count to balance it, while the Stug 3 F could replace it at BR2. This would give BR3 Germans a really strong HE flinger while BR2 Germans would get a powerful AT weapon for use against the likes of the KV-1, T-34 and Sherman.

  • Too Ruthless for already avoidable aircraft such as the Stuka D-3 which sits as an interesting option with 20mm guns.

Tier 3

  • Honestly happy enough with it as is, though my only change would be the swapping of the Stug 3 F and the Pz3 N.

  • Though as you implying you would make the MP40 a BR3?

Tier 4

  • A lower BR MG42 is very nice for larp, fuck you for thinking its fine to remove, folder it if you must.

  • See point above of just making it an axis faction instead of doing dumb shit like removing the M38A despite it being used by the Germans too. Side note about the M38, we so fucking need an event squad with the “Samurai” ammo carrier for the M38.

Tier 5

  • Again id be sad to see so much larp weaponry removed, especially the Jagdpanzers.

  • Otherwise apart from the MG 15 I’m fairly fine with it, even if the refusal to coexist with the Italians is dumb.

@Adamnpee I agree, removal of items which will in the long term only screw over newbies is just odd, all for foldering and reducing the grind though, admittedly atm I really dont think the grind is an issue, you can complete the entire grind for the game in the time it takes you get about 1 tree to 8.7 in WT.

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