Depends how much you skew the individual ratings - I’m sure it could be balanced in such a way to prevent this kind of example coming up against indefensibly low tier opponents.
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yeah it’s just comes down to testing, tweaking and preventing stuff like this to happen, but everybody will discredit you from the start saying there will be abuse, just like there weren’t any abuses and bad outcomes in current planned system.
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it is math. you create model and try to put actual numbers in to see what can happen with different loadouts. i was for either weighted average or max BR 9 months ago and since then i abandoned weighted average cause any system with it will be overly complex and still wont be able to fix loopholes.
max BR is much better system cause it will put you in your tech level. you choose to either upgrade to new BR tier or to stay on old tier until you unlock more stuff. there will be no sneaking in OP equipment into low tiers. problem with current system is with t3 that will end up either overpowered or underpowered depending on tier they get assigned to and that is why people are trying to get one at least one more queue for mid level stuff.
Can you give any examples of loopholes for weighted average system?
I ask out of curiosity as I support this system and so far I didn’t find anything major to abuse.
well this is biggest issue for me, waiting until unlocking more stuff will become the norm.
depends on the model you want to implement. is it max BR per squad and then weighted average for squads, is it weighted average per squad equipment and then average/weighted average/max BR on squads.
it depends on model and weights assigned to it.
this was one of my posts on the topic
you can tune it more, but values need to be extreme and then it is no different than max BR. if you dont put extreme values for weights then you could easily have squads with t4 equipment downtiered to t3 MM, or squads with t3 equipment downtiered to t2.
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I used system that doubles weapon’s BR for each BR above the average.
I’d say that’s the whole point. To bring some BR+1 equipment at a cost of bringing also BR-1 etc. equipment.
it doesnt end up with just some, but could end up with whole squad bringing semi automatics in t2 fight with bolties. semi auto is extremely useful in clearing caps. or you have squads with mp40 or ppsh41 against t1 and t2 MM. or you can bring flamethrower against opponents who never saw flamethrower etc.
In my “tests” full BR1 + one BR5 weapon (in the whole setup) placed you at BR4 or in the worst case BR3.
So “full squad of” didn’t happen. You had to have really low weight in your calculations if they allowed it.
cause you tested BR5 weapon. what about BR4 weapon? or BR 3 weapon? how many of those can they get in t1/t2 MM?
Generally full setup of BR1 gear allowed to bring one weapon one BR lower.
Of course numbers aren’t final etc. With 2x/BR weight it’s a rather harsh system.
I personally think we should keep max BR but have a points or cost system. So if you wanna bring a high tier tank it will pull points from your pool to use. You could instead bring a ton of assault rifles, but not have enough points to bring a max tier tank etc.
With this some weapons like starter weapons will be free to bring no matter what while mid tier weapons use some points but not a lot.
High tier has larger pool of points while low has lower etc.
And to make the devs happy premiums bypass the points or are at a reduced rate.
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does that mean that 3 9man squads of riflemen with kar98k will allow you to smuggle in KT in mid tiers?
Yes. There is a problem with rounding the results between calculations.
Later I rounded only the final result and it was ok. BR3.5 or BR4 depending how you make BR brackets.
so in current system it would possibly put you either in t3 that can see both high and low, or it would give you basically same result as max BR. if there are 3 queues it could put you at mid level queue where there is no counter for it besides the plane.
that means your system needs more weight, but if you add even more weight you could end up basically with max BR system.
maybe max br for vechicles only
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For some reason when I was counting this I was thinking about “normal” BR± system, not this weird 2 queue thing. I just now realised.
I guess we found my mistake.
The biggest problem with the BR they are currently working on is not considering the number of weapons. You can’t avoid questions about quantity in Enlisted.
He leads to what is called abuse at any level. And it caused some equipment to not be arranged in the proper position.
For example, carrying a large grenade package is completely different from carrying 9. Once they set up BR for additional gear they will face the same awkward situation
There will be no balance in combat. There are already many players preparing their “best” gear for each upcoming BR to give them an edge in the new BR.
For example, rifle grenades or PPS-42 low-level BR assault squads armed to the teeth.
You claim that BR will protect new players, why are you turning a blind eye to this? The new BR will become a heavier mountain on the head of every progress grinding player.
Dude you have to deal with numbers of weapons here… Or is this a vehicle based War Thunder?
The most complementary point is that I think it is so acceptable for a person who has just obtained a new weapon, such as PPD34/38 or even STG, to bring it more frequently to mid- and low-level battles. Maybe you’re just too sensitive to STG. So much so that you have ignored other so called BR4 or BR5 weapons, PPD, DP, MG34, etc.
If you think these things are an abuse, then obviously there will be more “abuse” in the current BR system, and you can’t talk about balance without talking about the number of weapons unless you enjoy it.
If you use the numbers 500, 1230, 2200 … instead of converting it to BR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 you will get suitable results.
The former is basically close to the suggestion in the forum to set BR to 100 levels. But it pays more attention to balance, and there is no need to pay attention to its level.
Any combination of equipment can get a score suitable for him.
Another problem is that many weapons have nowhere to go and have better alternatives in the BR where they belong. We only have categories 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
This overly simple system is unfriendly to many players. It doesn’t creates balance for many players…
Not to mention that new players who purchased a premium squad will be thrown into the “fair” competition of BR4 or BR5 in the new system. This is not a situation that players want to encounter, and this will seriously affect the value of these premium squads. Economic value to developers.
Simple logic is that if you have to talk about balance then you have to factor in quantity.
Unless you’re fighting a single soldier in lone wolf mode, or doing some sort of robot farm battle where you can kill many enemies with one soldier.
But in PvP combat, if you don’t consider the factor of quantity, you can’t talk about the so-called balance.
This is a key factor that affects the combat ability of every living player. Players with more weapons have more opportunities to try, and at the same time, his AI will hit more enemies.
Enlisted is squad-based and each player commands several soldiers in combat, rather than one soldier or one tank.
Of course, I think our debate here may spoil the topic, so I will send you the same text message. and discuss with you in message
So that we can understand each other’s ideas accurately, you ask for balance and I ask for the number of weapons to be considered, and I don’t think there is any conflict there.
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i am not claiming that BR will protect new players. new players only need a chance with same tier weapons. that is why i am against bringing higher tiered weapons inside lower tiered match.
also i am for better MM and that is to divide it into 3 instead of 2 MM queues (with 6 BR-s ) so that there is not such extremes in weapons and i am for reduction of grind so players can get better weapons faster.
i am not ignoring them. i am using stg and fedorov as examples cause they are most versatile and strong weapons. you can easily put flamethrower 2 inside and you will get same result. ppd34/38 with drum magazine is also OP if it is allowed in low tier battle cause it can clear whole cap with one magazine.
there is also option of having OP squads for their tier and then game becomes p2w and lots of players leave the game.
when you can bring weapon with short time to kill that can kill multiple people in short period of time it is pointless to talk about quantity.
problem is not that it is only 1 soldier, but that soldier can drop that weapon and instead of 1 soldier using 1 weapon, suddenly it becomes 2 soldier using 1 weapons. if soldier that picked up has secondary weapon (radio man, engineer, AT soldier, mortar man), it can easily become 3rd soldier etc.
you can make whole builds based on exploiting one high tier weapon in low tier MM
Would also allow using higher tier weapons against BR 1 noobs, so the opposite of being easier to balance
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