Are select fire rifles OP?

[GeneralBrus]

just read this a few minutes ago and it made me think:

@Adamnpee

But I argue that the FG42 II is OP. Just like any other SF rifle. They are all overperforming. And there is no such huge performance disparity as there is between the BR4 semis and BR5 SF rifles. The gap in performance is extremely huge.

I remember that since the very start of the game, that general weapon balance used to follow a simple logic:

“SMGs and MGs are limited to assaulters and machine gunners, because they are better weapons than infantry rifles”

back in the beta days it even used to be the case that MGs had no dispersion and because of that you got 3 MG gunners in a squad unlike assaulters who had 4 assaulters in a squad.

Those two types of squad were your mainline fighting squads, and if you wanted to use support units, you had to accept the fact that your troops now needed to use bolt action and semi auto rifles.

This very balance idea was destroyed with the introduction of the Normandy campaign - which introduced FG42 select fire rifles for riflemen and support units.
I remember the heated discussions about this massive gameplay change, which quite frankly makes me sort of agree with the legendary “wastedwoodsman”, but nowadays I feel like this change was never really addressed specifically because Mr Wastedwoodsman was so incredibly biased, ridiculous, and insane that no one took the topic serious anymore.

It was simply accepted and people got used to this over time.

(P.S. to Greyparrots, if you are reading this, stop being ridiculous all the time and people will actually take you serious)

now anyways, if you play BR1 - BR4 matches today you actually don’t have this issue. However once you step into BR5 you step into full auto heaven.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO REVIVE THIS TOPIC, because I do think it is relevant and I think opinions differ in this regard quite a lot.

I personally do agree that select fire rifles are in a certain way OP - specifically because they are NOT worse than BR5 assault rifles, which they logically should be since assault rifles are limited, select fire rifles are not.

To clarify - if you generally speaking compare assault rifles to select fire rifles one by one, you have:

30 round mag, 2 hit down, low recoil, good accuracy

vs

20 round mag, 1 hit down, high recoil, very good accuracy

so in a one by one comparison I personally find them to be equals, both with their strengths and weaknesses, but that is just my opinion.

[VoyoMayPL]

@GeneralBrus

I remember the heated discussions about this massive gameplay change, which quite frankly makes me sort of agree with the legendary “wastedwoodsman”, but nowadays I feel like this change was never really addressed specifically because Mr Wastedwoodsman was so incredibly biased, ridiculous, and insane that no one took the topic serious anymore.

Regular troopers shouldn't have full-auto weapons

Guns like: FG42, M2 carbine, AVS 36 and any other that may come in the future shouldn’t be available to troopers, they should be limited to either assaulters or gunners. If every soldier is able to run with full-auto weapon, then we will end up with CoD-like gameplay. Also it renders assaulters useless and completely kills ww2 climate of the game as it’s not historical in any way. I can’t find anything positive in keeping those weapons as they are now, unless you want more brain dead run and g…

I was against SF rifles from the start (as you can see in my angry post from 2021).
But now meta has settled in so removing them would anger a lot of ppl. More over, every new class added since then (I can’t think of any exception) came with SMG and/or assault rifle as their primary. (Medics, APC drivers, Paras, Guerilla, assault Engineers.)
So at this point I don’t think removing them would bring any positive change. It’s simply too late.

But some nerfs are a matter of time imo. Or at least I want to gaslight my self into believing this.
Ideally they should be next to unusable in full auto at medium range (imo).

[Adamnpee]

@GeneralBrus

I personally do agree that select fire rifles are in a certain way OP - specifically because they are NOT worse than BR5 assault rifles, which they logically should be since assault rifles are limited, select fire rifles are not.

Not just AR. Comparing it to any BR5 MG. SF rifles are literally better at almost everything but mag capacity/ammo reserve.

But they have far better dispersion, better movement, can be on far more soldiers…some of them even have higher dmg.
And they can be equipped by most important class of soldiers - engineers.

---

I believe their recoil should be increased significantly. To the point it will be impossible to shoot effectively at longer/medium distances in full auto without bipods.

[Comrade_Sina]

Almost no one uses their semi-automatic mode, I think they should be nerfed to the point where we are forced to use that mode, this could happen by increasing the recoil.

[木石]

BR5 should be independent. I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this. Small changes can bring about great progress, and they are both effective and necessary. The current technology tree is leading the game towards its doom. If it is not completely overhauled again, then making minor adjustments like making BR5 independent is necessary. If df does nothing, then good luck to it. I’ve been really interested in EasyRed2 recently.

[Comrade_Sina]

I don’t think making br5 independent would be beneficial, it should be completely separated from br3. And br4 should be buffed a bit, high capacity semi-autos shouldn’t be limited to premium and events.

@木石

EasyRed2

I have played it. The graphics and gameplay of this game are terrible, its only advantage is its historical nature and the realism of its gameplay.

[TnT-Zealoth]

@Comrade Sina

Almost no one uses their semi-automatic mode, I think they should be nerfed to the point where we are forced to use that mode, this could happen by increasing the recoil.

I do use them in semi auto mode lol
AVT40 is utter garbage in auto and amazing in semi
Same for FG422
The Hei is more mixed but I still generally prefer it in semi
The oversized Garand is just so bad you kinda have to burst it to land a hit here and there

I generally think the SF weapons should have way more recoil in full auto though

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

isn’t it funny how the same type of people who were against limiting said weapons, most of them are gone ?

yet us who were in favor of such changes ( which we never got ), are still here.

but i digress.

imo, select fire just like smgs and what not should have been limited while avoiding the nerf route and train.

so now, most select fire rifles are okay for the most part, and others former shadows of themselves.

but both outclass most of the equipment resulting in the same boring meta and overusage of weapons.

and as voyo pointed out, now the appeal has gone to full auto.
not a single class was spared from even more smgs.

P.S.
someone sent para to the shadowrealm

[GeneralBrus]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

someone sent para to the shadowrealm

oh true just read his post, wow what just happened

@ErikaKalkbrenner

imo, select fire just like smgs and what not should have been limited while avoiding the nerf route and train.

well that’s what I also think, because I personally do switch around between select fire rifles and assault rifles quite often, they might be both full auto spray’n pray guns BUT they play differently enough to make them feel unique. Limiting them without nerfing them would keep make more sense to me.

That being said:

@VoyoMayPL

So at this point I don’t think removing them would bring any positive change. It’s simply too late.

This is a very valid point.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@GeneralBrus

This is a very valid point.

yeah…

too late for anything.

and we keep findind ourselves in such positions… because of DF in their infinite wisdome.

really annoying.

like a literal tank destroyer being somehow an APC,

but an italian armored car considered a " tank ".
so are SPAs, etc etc.

@GeneralBrus

oh true just read his post, wow what just happened

no clue…
it could be because of his attitude and his least favorite followers are ready with flags…
but i don’t know.

or he genually used a meany word and got autoflagged by the bot.

anything happens in this forum nowdays

[gastanofrizzi]

SF aren’t the issue, they are the reward after grinding all the TT of a faction, your infantry universal weapon who can do everything without shine in anything, the issue is don’t make the other weapons able to compete with the SF… SA,SMG an MG need a buff

[Adamnpee]

@gastanofrizzi

the issue is don’t make the other weapons able to compete with the SF… SA,SMG an MG need a buff

Then all weapons would play exactly the same. And the only difference between them would be the size of the magazine and the amount of ammunition reserve.

[gastanofrizzi]

Would be the same nerfing the SF, it will bring it as the same level of other gun, also this would lead people to spam then next auto weapon until isn’t nerfed, in a loop of spam and nerf, so imo is better making everything strong and letting players decide what use

[GeneralBrus]

@Adamnpee

Then all weapons would play exactly the same. And the only difference between them would be the size of the magazine and the amount of ammunition reserve.

it depends what he means with buff tho

[GeneralBrus]

@gastanofrizzi

SF aren’t the issue, they are the reward after grinding all the TT of a faction

@gastanofrizzi

SA,SMG an MG need a buff

well same same but different - can you give us a specific example?

[CaptainSebekel]

Yes.
Too low recoil and not limited.

[CaptainSebekel]

@gastanofrizzi

next auto weapon

Well, tbf it is harder to spam other auto weapon compared to SF rifles since they are limited to one or two classes.

[gastanofrizzi]

Damage and accuracy increase for SMG, less movement dispersion on MG and automatic bipod deployment when prone, and of course fire rate buff on SA restoring their original RoF

[ParaDivision]

yes theyre OP and are - unlike all the other things that get constantly nerfed - absolutely in need for a nerf.
having a weapons thats basically an assault rifle available for every normal class just leads to BR5 games being boring and brain dead run&spray where every soldier class plays the same and 9man riflemen squads are the only playable thing, as even assaulter squads are reduced to secondary status.

randoms like to preach about muh skills of playing BR but the truth is, its the BR with the easiest to use weapons and such imbalanced power levels, that everything is the same. literally the opposite of a high skill environment.

edit:
solution: increase recoil of the BR5 rifles by 65-75%, increase their precision to very high levels instead.
also MGs need to have their precision increased significantly (with small recoil increase starting with the third sprayed bullet), while SMGs need slight precision reductions.

[VoyoMayPL]

@gastanofrizzi

Damage and accuracy increase for SMG

I agree about the damage (but only at close range) but I’d say accuracy is good enough.
For better accuracy I’d buff ARs.