Are select fire rifles OP?

Mess Room
22

Not really.

I specifically suggested this nerf:

This would still make them very different from other classes of weapons.

  • ARs would still be laser weapons.
  • MGs would still have dispersion and would be essentially useless while moving.
  • SF rifles would still be pretty accurate. (Not with terrible debuff to dispersion the MGs have) You’d just have to switch to semi-mode if you were to engage in longer range combat.

I really don’t see how they would all be the same.

But with your buff (buffing all other types of weapons). You’d have to make them all laser, all have -+14 dmg, all have 0% to movement penalty. Essential make them all basically the same.
Because there aren’t many ways to buff other weapons and not make them play exactly the same as SF rifles.

SF rifles are weapons that outperform compared to any other type of weapon. It’s not like they’re some sort of average and just every other gun is too bad.

And I don’t like the idea of limiting SF rifles.

Just make full auto of SF rifles worse than it currently is. So specialized weapons on full auto (AR, MG) would actually be better. Because those are the ones that should be limited.

BR5 should remain full auto. All guns there should have full auto modes. That is literally the unique thing about this BR.
(If you were to limit SF rifles, then at least give Smgs to BR5 engineers)

4 Likes
23

I might be late to the party and probably no one cares, but I will share my thoughts regardless.
I think select fire rifles are interesting and good additions to the game and fit the balance of BR5 reasonably well, an AVT-40 is just as strong as an AS-44 or RD-44 in the right situation.
However these rifles are way stronger than any semi-auto rifle and heavily increase the fire power of BR5 squads which is all fine and well as long as BR5 is only fighting BR5 which isnt the case.

In my humble opinion, SF rifles should be limited to only engineers and riders while other infantry such as radio operators, AT gunners, flame throwers ect. would carry 15 or 20 round semi-auto rifles instead.
This way BR5 would be closer to BR4 in power but still stronger, though players could still have a full-squad of SF rifles but only with engineers or riders.
Two birds with one stone really since this would promote playing engineer and rider, but still heavily limit SF rifles.

I even wrote a draft for a suggestion about this, but I never felt like it would be a good idea to post it.

2 Likes
24

On their own? Yes.

But the weapons you have mentioned are heavily limited in comparison to rifles.

And SF rifles are still rifles.
This means they’re supposed to be wide spread.

They can be used in combination with AT lauchers, engineering, flamethrowers…

They are not supposed to be on par with ARs, MGs and other weapons that are limited to only specific classes.

You shouldn’t just compare the guns themselves to each other. But you should include all the special things that specialists using SF rifles can have.
SF rifles do not stand just on their own.

This would destroy the uniqueness of BR5. It would essentially turn the engineering squad into a total meta.

If SF rifles were to be limited. They definitely shouldn’t be used by engineers.

They should only be used by riflemen (and maybe by future TT paras and bikers you have mentioned, as they’re pure gimmick squads in their current state)

All other BR5 specialists should be able to use SMGs. Since BR5 smgs are a pure downgrade to ARs.
And I believe the BR5 should be a really heavy full auto. Just like the late war was compared to the early war.

1 Like
25

but SF rifles also come with their own downsides: very limited ammo, MGs have insanely high ammo pool, ARs are also reasonable but SF rifles burn through their ammo reserves quickly so with the exception of Japan, its not worth taking SF rifles over AR or MG.

riflemen is literally the worst you could pick, people could still run 9 FG42 or Type Hei auto rifles… No point in limiting SF rifle at all in that case.

BR5 SMGs are exceptionally good in CQC, they are worth using, but even if you prefer ARs in every way you will still use SMGs with your tank crew, pilots, APC drivers ect.

However giving SMG to every joe is unhistorical and exploitable, since radio operators or any infantry with second weapons slot unlocked could carry both rifle and a SMG at the same time.

1 Like
26

why not try both?

I think an overall recoil increase for all full power select fire rifles is more than reasonable, semi autos also deserve a buff for sure, MGs and SMG however I think are for the first time in ages in a rather good spot right now… well at least good enough I would say. Maybe some more polish for bipod placements could be appreciated and some BR placements could be adjusted here and there (why arent there BR1 MGs for example), but SMGs are fine, maybe some early ARs and some BR5 SMGS can be lowered to BR4, since BR4 and BR3 SMGS are pretty much the same thing, but other than that those dont need much change.

27

Which BR5 weapon is not? I really would love to know that. They’re all good. Especially once you learn how to effectively hip fire (extremely easy in enlisted).

What matters is medium distance. That’s where you really see the difference.

As if that matters when you surely have engineer with SF. And you can your build a ammo box in few seconds next to you.

MGs are very good only while bipoded. Making you an extremely easy target for anyone you are not focused at.
Having ability of continues fire is nice. But it’s not for free. Once you shoot for more than a few seconds, anyone will register it and send a spray your way. I happened to do that to so many Gunners enjoying their BR MGs.
Very often you will hit his death and OHK in moment.

Whereas with SF rifles you just peek out of the cover, spray few enemies, and before anyone else registers anything, you’re back holed up.

You reload/refill the ammo from the ammo box and eventually move to the window a few meters away.

Literally just a secondary stuff. It’s not like you’re playing tankers, pilots and APC drivers for the sake of playing BR5 Smgs. Nobody does that.

BR5 smgs are a supplement to those soldiers. Just as they would be to the other specialists.

I really don’t see the point of destroying the most unique thing about BR5 - full auto heavy gameplay. By pushing semi rifles at all cots to BR5. They are already across 3 different BRs.

I just don’t need to play semis even in BR. I’d go play BR3 for that experience.

And if anyone doesn’t like full auto heavy gameplay. The be just shouldn’t be playing BR5.

People are completely confusing the issue. The topic is that SF rifles are overperforming. And that’s a fact.

There is no other such performance gap between other weappns types. (Meaning, between BR4 and BR5 MGs, between BR4 smgs and BR5 smgs… Even between BR4 and BR5 sniper - German AR sniper excluded)

This topic was never about “remove full auto heavy gameplay from BR5”.

1 Like
28

By comparison yes. Sfs take over at br 5 making nearly everything else redundant by using a “riflemen” no less. Makes it very boring. (Shouldnt have been a rifleman weapon :man_shrugging:)

Id like to see semi autos buffed to 1 hit (at top br) and select fires knocked down to a few hits and massive recoil. MGs could use some work

One weapon shouldnt do it all. This is why you have different weapon types in the first place. They need to get this right

2 Likes
29

they could still limit SF rifles in BR5 without removing full auto play style, for example by creating a new sub weapon type - light assault rifles, kinda like M2 Carbines that arent full T20, but also not really OP assault rifles.

maybe Fedorov, M2 Carbine and MkB could be the exception, those dont kill with one shot ( mostly ) and still arent that powerful compared to other full BR5 guns.

This could work with some fine tuning

30

They could.

But I feel like that’s way too much work for DF, such a complex solution.

Increasing the recoil of about six weapons is a much more realistic solution. And I think it would do the game a lot of good.

1 Like
31

I actually do that stuff - well knowing that it is just for trolling hehe

32

Yes.

Select fire rifles need a major recoil nerf in auto mode. Their current implementation basically makes assaulters and mgs often a bit pointless on BR5.

The devs are wrecking their own class system with this shit. Feels like there’s no plan here.

5 Likes
33

Dissagree spamming stingers and MG42s is Even nastier than the spam of GL or at least that happened to me when i tried to step on BR5 soviets (with no propper equipment) and I just got constantly cooked by MG42s lol

34

Speaking pretty much solely from the perspective of someone who plays a lot of BR5 Japan. Yes a little bit, I do think they need some more recoil overall when fired in prolonged bursts. Though in saying this, the fact that everyone is able to run as many SF rifles as they want it balances out in a funny way. Also it helps that pretty much every other BR5 gun already does a pretty great job of annihilating anyone in less than a second anyway, the SF rifles don’t end up being the worst thing.

BR5 is just rapid point and click fun where you can honestly just turn off your brain 90% of the time

35

Man Japan is its own issue - you guys have a select fire rifle that has 30 round mags that however still downs with one shot, even if only in close range.

1 Like
36

Yeah I’ll admit the type Hei auto is pretty insane, honestly I do think we should have gotten the 20 round version in the TT and the 30 as an event item or something. Speaking of the Japanese paras with the shield having a 30 at BR4 is insane, should have 110% been a 20 round mag for them.

1 Like
37

Honestly type hei should get a damage nerf since it uses the same ammo as Fedorov and then move to the Assault rifle class.

2 Likes
38

I’m happy with it moving to assault rifle class so long as we have something to replace it. I know there was a type 2 SMG or something chambered in an intermediate calibre being tested during WW2. Or you could go the way of making that the assault rifle and pulling the Hei damage down a bit to compensate for the mag capacity.

1 Like
39

No. Federov should simply be reclassified to an SF rifle. There is nothing that makes federovs and type hei autos an AR.

40

Their mag size

41

And that has any significance? Soviets are the only faction without 30 round mag SF rifle.

No wonder they’re losing so hard. AVT/AVS are definitely the worst SF rifles. The high DMG has little to no significance.

1 Like