Answering Your Questions!

The ability to roll an imaginary dice until the ideal game you dreamed up comes up.

And what exactly is wrong with that anyway? People having fun, in a videogame they play for fun? I fail to see the problem with people aiming to have fun in a videogame.

“Someone’s blocking a vehicle slot? Cool, just leave that game and try your luck again.”

Ah yes, spending 1min 30s in queue for a game, then spending another 2 minutes waiting for vehicle timer then quitting and spending another 1min 30s in queue is totally a proportionate response for not getting the vehicle first. I’m sure everyone is doing this, I’m surprised there’s even people left in any game. And again, if vehicles are so in demand, perhaps it means they’re too OP, and that there’s other problems with them beyond deserting to get them? I don’t know, just a thought.

“Someone instantly kills your soldier with a new GO weapon? Cool, you definitely don’t want to wait another 2 squares instead you just quit the game a try again. .”

That sounds more like a game design flaw than a player flaw.

“Got a bad team? Cool, then just leave match…”

They’re gonna be bad regardless or not if you’re there. What difference does it make, the other team will still win.

“There’s so many reasons why someone would want to desert.”

You’re right, and a lot of them are benevolent and/or valid. Almost like outright punishing them is a bad idea, instead of simply fixing issues with the game.

“But this game simply isn’t only about one person”

And yet when one person leaves a match, it’s the end of the world, and he’s single-handedly doomed the team?

“And they’re affected by his desertion.”

Again, if they’re so easily psychologically damaged by one person leaving their team, they should probably not be playing a war game.

“Especially on higher BRs. Where difference between bot and real players is truly significant.”

Sounds like they should prioritise improving Bots over giving punishments for desertion then.

“Desertion is just bypassing the system,”

Yup, nothing screams “beating the system” like spending another 2 minutes in a matchmaking queue. All these people out here absolutely abusing the system by looking at the main menu screen for even longer, absolutely disgusting.

“And I think most reasons why people do desert are absolutely pathetic.”

So you’re just anti-fun then? Because people are deserting because they’re not having fun, so if that’s pathetic to you, I’m pretty sure the videogame hobby isn’t the right hobby to be in.

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If you are playing a PvP game you are agreeing to the social contract to work for your team’s betterment and doing your best to win. If you don’t want to do that, play PvE.

As to “what’s wrong with that?” Not everyone likes the same things. Everyone’s ideal match is different. If everyone applied your philosophy Queue times would be many many minutes as it tried to find enough people to agree on what “perfect” looks like.

I strongly believe in punishing deserters. One death Quitters ruin War Thunder from BR 9.7 to the top. And losing human players halfway through matches has cost me many wins in Enlisted, which directly impacts my research and Silver gain.

All of that being said, I don’t think the punishment should be SEVERE. But a lot of much more popular games have some pretty stiff penalties for desertion, like DOTA or SMITE.

To pretend it is inherently a bad mechanic to punish desertion is ignorant.

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If you are playing a PvP game you are agreeing to the social contract to work for your team’s betterment and doing your best to win. If you don’t want to do that, play PvE.

A) No, you’re not agreeing to anything except their ToS.
B) How can we do PvE when they’re refusing to expand the PvE capabilities?

Besides, what if I really, really REALLY suck at a certain map? Is it not then in the team’s interest for me to leave? If I am a vehicle-main who sucks at infantry combat and I fail to get a vehicle, is it not in the team’s best interest for me to leave? Where do we draw the line when it comes to “it’s for the team”?

“Not everyone likes the same things. Everyone’s ideal match is different.”

And now people are set to be punished for having those different likes.

" If everyone applied your philosophy Queue times would be many many minutes"

Well no because as you said, everyone’s likes is different. I leave because I don’t like the Pacific, there’s going to be someone out there who hates Tunisia but loves the Pacific - and he’ll leave Tunisia and go to Pacific, I’ll leave Pacific and go to Tunisia. It’s not like everyone’s doing a mass exodus from matches in sync, on a countdown timer or something.

" ruin War Thunder"

This isn’t War Thunder.

“And losing human players halfway through matches has cost me many wins in Enlisted,”

Not sure how these desertion punishments will help then, as they said they’re going to punish people leaving at the start of matches, not mid-way through.

Also, funny how “deserting to get a good WR” is bad, but punishing desertion and preventing people having fun so someone else can get a good WR is good. Can’t make this stuff up.

“To pretend it is inherently a bad mechanic to punish desertion is ignorant.”

Completely the opposite. To pretend that these desertion punishments will magically fix the game is ignorant.

A change that would be really neat is the integration of vehicles for every faction once you deploy an infantry squad, instead of equipping a single squad with motorcycle or an APC, it would be bettter if you could grind, unlock and choose which vehicles you’ll want to use in battle, it could have like artillery strikes, a cooldown to avoid spam vehicles constantly but only to be able to use them depending on the situation.

intro-1675804392

Do you know what a social contract is?

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then why does 90% of playerbase not know about this contract?

i will repeat myself again.

arent all those types of player breaking that “social contract”?

bad maps/modes directly impact xp bonus(nothing worse than getting conquest when you have 200 or 300% bonus), shit teams impact my 50% bonus xp, faction stacking impacts my win chance when i am playing non stacked faction, i get shit xp when playing stacked faction(cause good players steal kills), people not building rally points impact winnable matches etc.

and do you know what those games have? no faction stacking, choice of mode/map and SBMM.

to blatantly ignore problems game has that cause desertion is ignorant. game will only become worse if desertion punishment is implemented. it will either make people quit or make game worse by worsening faction stacking even more.

btw here is interesting statistic from when germans dominated allies with over 90% WR.

do you notice difference between axis deserting and allies deserting on german maps? i wonder if unbalanced matches have anything to do with desertion?

I question that number.
and I can see you also don’t understand what a social contract is.

Possible, but irrelevant. It’s still true that bot squads burning the tickets are out of control - they run into the open, and the opposing team just has to wait, harvesting portions of fresh bots repeatedly from the same routes. Even though the human players are capable to advance in invasion, the allied bots will waste their efforts, never trying to shoot from hiding or suppress the enemy and burning through tickets at a rate that human players can hardly match, even if they are barely conscious noobs.

oh really? then tell me how many players actually play for win? how many players actually know game mechanics of this game? how many players know that you need to defend/attack cap point. to build rallies?

but these were your words

do you know how many players dont know basic mechanics of the game? who are basically working every match for their selfish purpose against teams benefit?

btw what was that 10th place guy in my team doing for betterment of the team?

What I’m saying is everyone should be playing to win. By and large, I believe the overwhelming majority of players WANT to win. Who plays these games to lose? Incompetence/inexperience is the easiest explanation on why people are bad at the game…bad at winning.

How do they get better if nobody ever stays in matches with them?

Your argument is predicated on the fact that you want EVERYONE else to try to win, but if it’s hard to win you don’t want to try. It’s essentially a selfish argument. “Don’t punish me for doing something that’s bad for other people.”

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I think the chimpfight should switch to private messages already.

Let’s try to extract ourselves from the chimpfight arena and state some facts and try to improve based on them:

-ENLISTED & BOTS - the squad / bots system is what sets the game apart and has huge potential.
-PLAYERBASE - it needs to grow a lot, to make the game more healthy from all points of view
-ECONOMY and METAGAME - need to increase silver/exp gain
-POTENTIAL PRESSING GAMEPLAY BALANCING ISSUES

ENLISTED & BOTS
-the game is HISTORICALLY BASED, should try to go on a fairly historical path but let’s not chimp out about Tigers in Stalingrad or Tunisia, I say ideally play any BR and any squad on any map as end goal, however limit the introduction of clowny blueprint feverdream weapons/vehicles so that the game doesn’t devolve into a fantasy sh!tshow
-the squad system makes the game unique, makes games/battles feel alive and full of action
-bots need improvement still, longer range for awareness , bad aim at long range that progressively gets better the closer you get → goal to make bots less limp d!ck deadweight, at lease have them shoot in the general direction at 100 meters, they seem blind up to a certain distance; goal is NOT to make bots laser killers at range, on their own, but after you get spotted and they shoot around you a few times eventually to start hitting you not running around in paralel in clear sight of eachother.
-better pathfinding, trying to follow the leader’s path climbing rubble / windows not going around through doors the long way; maybe have a 5 meter or something left/right of the leader’s path on which they try to get through.
-when stopped for a few seconds, bots should crouch and try to look around not stare directly at walls
-improve engineer squad - i repeat myself, engineer squad with multiple engineers should auto build the schematics you place on the ground, let’s say 3-5 seconds after placement, without you having to clumsily order them 1 by 1
-try to make use of the shovel / digging mechanic by being able to set a schematic on the ground and bots with shovels in your squad auto dig to a certain depth

PLAYERBASE

  • I think we all can agree that it needs to grow FIRST so that many things can get done and work reasonably well, including but not limited to map and gamemode selection, defend the base gamemode against bot squads, general livelyness in games with more players than bots.
  • I don’t have solutions per se, hopefully a STEAM release that is not tied with STUPID SHENANIGANS like prebuy steam bullsh!t access will help.
    -new players thus need to be encouraged to continue and not pubstomped, there should be interface and quality of life changes done then proper instructional tutorials explaining the basics and the more advanced mechanics, and I do recommend a separate queue for the first 100 battles or so, not sure if possible; I’d say BR 1 separate but I play BR 1 and I’d pubstomp the new players so I know it wouldn’t work very well.

ECONOMY and METAGAME
-most people agree that exp and silver gain in particular are pretty low overall
-I suggest adding and tweaking bonuses that reward desirable actions rather than directly increasing gain
-exp gain is directly tied to silver gain
-add 5% exp every game in a row that you complete, up to a cap of something meaningful like 30-40%, streak canceled if you quit a game (DESERT AWMAGAAADDDD XOXO)
-meaningful and enticing bonus for choosing to queue with any nation
-need GOLAS for ongoing play, veterans box sounds enticing for moneysink but I believe they will get greedy and stupid with it, as in too expensive and too low chances for actual goodies, time will tell
-need a goal to play squad → squad achievements, every squad when yo uget 1000-2000 kills with it you unlock … something. enticing. set of uniforms, silver, gold, bananas, you name it.
-need a goal to play with ALL weapons in the tech tree → weapon achievements, 1000 kills with a weapon unlocks something enticing, lootbox, silver, gold, dildos, whatever is enticing
-overall customization system needs work, can tie in unique uniform pieces to different rewards, I won’t get into too much detail but PLEASE don’t make it a clownshow → tied to my previous point about clowny blueprint vehicles, I say no weapon customizations or outlandish uniforms that devolve the game into an asian fantasy mmo with big tiddy waifus running around shooting 2 bazookas at a time wearing red thongs and clown hat

POTENTIAL PRESSING GAMEPLAY BALANCING ISSUES
-deserting - maybe the better solution is to offer incentives to not quit as stated above rather than straight up punishment. Or both, carrot and stick.
-mines - should have 3-5 sec deploy time, make them easier to spot, fix german mines sinking in the floors, it’s a wargame no need to cuddle enraged weaklings feelings if they step on mines too often
-greyzone camping - consider expanding playable area, making artillery more useful against tanks and allowing to arty strike in the greyzone - if maybe some very problematic zones can be identified and reworked on the maps, then a combination of these 3 should be sufficient, there are already tools available in the game for most situations, tanks, planes with bombs, AT guns, rocket launchers, and good old banzai charge with TNT
-players not building rallies → allow 2 rallies per player and maybe increase exp gain 35->50 from rally / 50->70 to APC; also someone had a good idea with rally spawn priority for the rally builder; also autokick spawned squad from APC if it’s not on the move, after a short while;

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I play for fun but I’m guess I’m a weirdo.

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I had the same idea! It should really be implemented.
Plus, there should be the option to fold/unfold the bayonet (in the menu and in battle as well) on Beretta M1918 and a few other weapons, FG 42 has a unused bayonet as well

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then why is majority of current german on BR5 incompetent? i constantly see people camping/sniping, not building rally points and not attacking cap points. i see people sucking hard with tanks and planes. they can easily become 5 times better just by reading or watching one tutorial on how to play enlisted and basic game mechanics that every player should know. is it in your social contract to do basic necessity to actually know basic game mechanics by the time you reach BR3? is it in your social contract for people to know that they are at big disadvantage if they bring even one BR3 weapon cause they could end up hindrance to BR5 players?

nah… i just want for me not to be the only one who wants to win in the team and to be the only one who hard carries the team.

btw this is also consequence of faction stacking that you conveniently ignore. is it good social contract to play stacked faction and to pound noobs even more for staying in unstacked faction? me staying or not staying in a match where i am only gold player against team full of veteran marshals that are basically raping the unstacked team will not help anyone.

so f your false morals and social contracts. you are behaving like deserters are be all and end all of the problems that are plaguing the enlisted when you are ignoring obvious elephant in the room. why did axis desertion rate drop post merge when all veterans played exclusively germany and why did ally desertion rate significantly increase. did it have anything to do with roflstomps? where was your social contract then for people to go play allies.

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in addition to that, to make it friendly for new players, make br 1 weapons and tier 1 squads have easier to attain weapon / squad achievements → 500 kills with starting rifle gets you gold order weapon, 50k silver, set of maxed BR2 weapons, get 10 achievements receive br 1 basic premium squad, posibilities are endless with just putting out goals and rewards

In a PvP, team based game, not trying to win is, in fact, weird.

Why in the world would you play a game that rewards you for winning, is played by people trying to win, and then not try and win?

Wining is nice but it’s not my main objective.
Fun > win

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The counter to your argument is they are all trying to lose? I already said incompetence was a thing.