Air! (poll on aviation)

We continue to work on and develop aviation in Enlisted.

We have made significant fixes to the damage models of aircraft, created a new explosion fragment dispersal system, and implemented protection mechanics behind destructible objects.

Now we want to know in your opinion, what are the remaining troubles with in-game aviation: damage models, controls, interaction, ground strike efficiency, or issues with attacker or fighter aircraft?

Share your feedback in the special form below. All of the feedback you submit will help us make the aviation aspect of our game even more exciting and engaging.

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17 Likes

Nice. I voted for flight controls (joystick, rudder pedal and trackIR support is needed).

If you can, pick aircraft that were actually used in campaign by involved sides. RE2000 as an example was barely used by Italians, G50 and MC200 are of similar performance and were actually used in mass.

7 Likes

Bombs seem to be fine but anti air aspect (both from ground and from air) of the game needs huge improvements.

4 Likes

Yes they could be faster.

Plane part is not the core part of this game. Itā€™s even less important than tank gameplay.
And due to plane is even harder to play than tanks, and gains less. Just dont put too many effort on them. (If you really want plane gameplay, go to WT, IL2, DCS, etc)
And later stage fighter without any bombs makes them really useless.
But what need to be improve are too hard tech tree. and unable to multicrew thus not able to use many function of the plane or at least gain XP for all boarded crews.
Also some major bug, like Moscowā€™s BF110C7 fighter bug.

And for infantry, current AA gun certainly need some improvements.

can you define " balance " ?

because, there are different types of balance. and therefore iā€™d like to know which action will be taken in consideration if someone select that voice.

thanks.

2 Likes

I think airplanes as a whole, need some work:

Tailgunners, bomber crew and not being able to defend themselves, whether that be basic AI or player controlled, we have earnt all the upgrades for nothing at the moment.

No parachutes, make them slow so when people bail, they are easy targets (their choice!)

I also posted here about some of the flight models, one was FW190 how it shakes and is very jumpy.

Freelook when using Screen Joystick PS5 still affect airlerons and elevators, I had to reverse the axis when looking for someone in the sky above.

More damage feedback, sometimes you donā€™t hear bullets, just see damage on indicator. Bullet holes in windscreens, wings, let us know we are under attack and getting hit!

Some of the premium and late level planes have no bombs, this limits their use, unless cannons work against tanks?

How many BF109 variants, is there a major difference between G6, G10 really?

Bombsights on bombers, they donā€™t need to see the ground but outlines and target markers, that itā€¦

That will do for my feedback on planes as I have put this in the forum already.

10 Likes

Suicide bombers. Donā€™t let them start over with full load - force them to go back to reload on next spawn, losing time and making them exposed to enemy aircraft. (Only if they did not reload at least twice.)

I forgot to mention that in the poll, and canā€™t modify it now. :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

What I saw the most need to bring up was that using a fighter to actually intercept attackers isnā€™t rewarding enough.

7 Likes

I think the plane needs some meaning to exist
Destroy buildings with bombs, do advanced spots with reconnaissance planes ā€¦
No one wants to shoot down the plane as it is now.

3 Likes

Iā€™ve only played Tunisia lately so maybe itā€™s just the map, but Iā€™ve been able to spot infantry much more easily from the air, not that marking them up there is very intuitive.

Iā€™ve also successfully located and destroyed a mortar from the air alone with my Re 2000ā€™s machine guns.

Are bombs nerfed too much?

Forgot to mention, canā€™t request targets, no button option works in plane currently

You made too much nerf at the same time with the indicator for bombs + too much lowered the splash radius of bombs + being prone now protect youā€¦ Itā€™s absurdly exaggerated. Before thoses nerfs bombs were op but after the nerfs they are almost useless, you guys donā€™t know the balanceā€¦
Even the supposed 500 kg bombs you need to literally throw almost on the top of the tank and not even near to destroy them now, for 500 kg itā€™s totally absurd. Revert at least the splash radius of bombs nerf for balance.

About the damage model its still bugged, like yesterday I was shooting an IL2 with the Bf109 F2, sometimes I kill them with around 50 ammo and sometimes the 200 ammo arenā€™t enough. So imagine how itā€™s almost impossible to shot down a plane with the Bf109 F1 with only 60 ammoā€¦ Itā€™s same on every other campaign.

5 Likes

I still have my AT guns get deleted 50m away from a 1000lb bomb.

2 Likes

Well, itā€™s not possible since they have a radius of 25m maximum. And btw on Tunisia how many times I throwed 500kg bombs on tanks like 5m near maximum when I was trying to bombs them and they had literally nothing. Not something normal at all, Iā€™m throwing 500kg of water bomb or what ?

2 Likes

I agree that bombs should be more powerful against tanks to make grey zone camping a smaller issue, but for infantry the nerf is perfect. Good pilots still top the scoreboard with 6-10 kills from a well placed bomb. Also for me it felt like there was a small silent increase in bomb effectiveness in last weeks, or possibly I mixed them up with rockets.

Btw:

"I canā€™t remember the exact details as itā€™s been a few years but I read a German report from ww2 where testing was done to determine the effectiveness of bombs vs tanks. If I recall correctly a 500kg bomb had to land within 10m of a medium tank like a t34 or Sherman etc. To ā€œdestroyā€ it. "

I wish someone could dig up some actual WW2 data, not only the flipped tanks.

ā€¦ok, same thread,

" 1942 detonation tests - Udetfield Upper Silesia, north of Beuthen ( Polish spelling ā€œBytomā€œ)
Targets: ten Russian T-34, one American M-4 Sherman, three British Mark IV Churchill tanks
Bombs used: SC-250
Effect on T-34: remains intact at distance of 3 meters (9.7 feet) animals inside tank killed, diesel fuel set aflame. "

1 Like

Regarding the damage model: I think the hardness of the aircraft is still hard. You can continue to weaken and refine the model to increase the damage to the aircraft by 20mm guns. I now feel that the Browning machine gun is more powerful than the MG151 because it has more bullets. Itā€™s easier to kill pilots.

Regarding the control: I think the control is okay now, but the control of the aircraft that rolls quickly is very uncomfortable, such as FW190.When using the FW190 to observe the target and hover, it is difficult to control, because the aircraft will automatically level off in the game, and hope to lock the rudder when pulling the joystick like War Thunder.

Regarding air strikes: In the previous update, the aerial bombs have been greatly weakened. In actual use now, it is difficult for me to kill people. Even with 500kg bombs, the damage from the bomb can be ignored if there are obstacles on the ground. There are some obstacles. Objects can be destroyed, but there is no way to solve some indestructible obstacles, such as the woods. I used to drive a P47 to drop bombs in the woods many times, but I still couldnā€™t kill the PUMA and infantry in the woods, or It is very difficult to use a bomb to kill a tank. In Berlin, I drove the IL-2 directly into a German tank. The bomb fell directly at his feet. However, he moved forward and I couldnā€™t kill him. In general, I feel that the weakening of the bombs is so excessive that bombs that were not powerful in the first place are now almost unusable, such as the 100kg in the Soviet Union.

Regarding fighters and attack aircraft: some aircraft occupy the wrong grid in the current game. For example, the p38g occupies the position of the attack aircraft, and the Moscow bf110c7 occupies the position of the fighter. I donā€™t know if this is a balance or a bug.
Fighters currently have no value in the game, especially fighters that are not mounted. It is even more useless than the tank destroyer in the game, because its function is too single, it can only be used purely to shoot down the opponentā€™s aircraft, and the main body of this game is to destroy the opponentā€™s infantry to prevent the opponent from achieving the goal. Players usually dispatch fighter jets to prevent the opponentā€™s next air attack after being attacked by an enemyā€™s attack aircraft, but even if the opponent is shot down, fighting fighters is also a loss.There is one fighter player in the sky, which is equivalent to one less infantry player on the ground. In the conquest mode, one party launches an air attack, and the other party uses a fighter jet to shoot down the attack aircraft. Then what can the fighter player do? Hovering in the sky waiting for the enemy to reproduce an airplane? Itā€™s not profitable, and itā€™s a waste of time.In the invasion mode, the defender uses an attack aircraft to attack the attacker. The attacker will lose the most if it sends a fighter jet to shoot down the attack aircraft. Unless it can ensure that the enemy attack aircraft is shot down before every bomb drop, the attacker will lose money by sending a fighter jet. , This is just a kind of stop loss, but because of the infinite manpower of the defending side, attacking planes can be continuously born to attack the attacking side.The defensive side is the only one suitable for dispatching fighters, because every time a fighter is used to shoot down an attacking aircraft, it is a blow to the manpower of the attacking side.In summary, fighter jets currently have low returns and lack effectiveness. Intercepting aircraft itself is very difficult, because the aircraft in the game are born in the air and are very close to the theater of war. It is very difficult to shoot down enemy aircraft before dropping bombs and once the enemy drops the bomb and kills the teammate, the subsequent interceptions are all stop losses and cannot bring any positive gains.By the way, the most efficient way to use airplanes is to carry three mounted airplanes and then launch a kamikaze attack. In the current bomb damage situation, this is both efficient and accurate. Especially the defender in the invasion mode is particularly suitable for using such tactics.My view on this situation is that the attacker can take off from the airport and go to the theater to attack the target. The fighter is still born in the air.Improve the profitability of fighter jets. For example, if there are enemy aircraft within a certain distance, points can be added.I donā€™t want you to add maintenance fees, respawn points or similar things that restrict players, but it is true that the environment of the aircraft needs to be changed.

Regarding balance: Some aircraft are too weak compared to enemy aircraft of the same level, mainly the Soviet Air Force. The 50kg or 100kg of the Il-2 is too weak. They were very weak when the bombs were not weakened in the past, but Bombing infantry can still be used, but now they are almost impossible to use, the most pitiful is Moscowā€™s pe3, there used to be 6 RBS132, it was changed to 4 100kg, then after a short time, the bomb was weakened, and now it Both the SB2 and the PE3 are aircraft with poor flight performance and poor bombing capabilities. I think the Soviet aircraft should be upgraded to the 250kg load level, like the IL-10.

Others: I hope that the self-defense machine gun mentioned in the previous development log can be installed as soon as possible. Some aircraft can only abandon after being attacked, such as SB2 and JU188.I hope to fix some long-standing bugs. For example, Confederate aircraft generally lose power after flying for a long time (About ten minutes), while Axis aircraft will not.There is also the FW190 that automatically shoots empty when there are only 100 bullets left in the cannon.
Hope the developers can finish reading :slightly_smiling_face:

6 Likes

The model damage against planes seems to me fine personly, im always aiming for things like engines, pilot and wings (when plane is turning around) and never found issue with them being too tanky, but for sake of AA guns the plane that is damage should get worse overtime, like lets say you got shot in the engine and its orange, over time it should just go red and then die off, in that case even non leathel shot from AA would still destory plane if not out right then over time.

Controls could be better, some planes sometimes for no reason start to shake and that makes aiming, and spoting from sky much more difficult then it should be.

Attackers and thier payload have some issues, but it a bigger picture then just bombs and thier splash its also issue with some maps where for example lets take here Normandy and Airfield map, there Ju188 was redicoulus with its 250kgx6 payload and no cover for infrantry and pretty obvious routes for infrantry to go for the objective, where in Moscow for example, one Ju 87 with either 250kg and two 50kg bombs or Ju 87 with 500kg bomb didnt made that big amount of impact unless he waited for opportunity so im my opinion this was balanced since:

1.Payload was much lower (500kg isnt equal of 250kg x 6)
2.Map desing protects infrantry (hills, forests, houses, periodic fog)
3.Attacker speed: Ju188 could resupply way faster since it is faster plane the Ju 87 and climbs much easier where Ju 87 was much slower to climb and build up speed.

My suggestions to attackers: never make them have more then 600kg of explosive together for example one 500kg and two 50kg are enough for everything, buff bombs a bit since they did get nerfed too much, never do planes like Ju188 or A20 or until map desing will allow for them and more players could be in match since for only 10vs10 they make way to big impact, and if you dont want to remove Ju188 and A20 for any reason give them cooldown for resupply so they dont just come back with almost 1 ton of explosive within 1min. And if guy suicides after bomb drop to skip cooldown give cooldown on plane squad for 8min, that should be enough since average game from my experience takes around 24min.

Fighters should get more points for destorying planes OR they should get rewored for keeping the sky clear from enemy planes, like giving them points every 1min if theres no enemy aircraft in the sky, that would also encourge fighters to look for planes rather then strafing/bombing infrantry. Also in my opinion fighters shouldnt ever go above 250kg of payload.

Also the idea with ballons for fighters to destory on Airfield in Normandy was a good one in my opinion it kept them busy and reworded thier team, so you can always make something like that for them in other campaings/maps, just also make some rewared for them for doing that secondary objective.

2 Likes