AI is more likely to target you if you shoot a lot. It would make sense to add something similar to grenades: longer you cook the grenade = AI is more likely to target you.
The issue is that it would make impact grenades even stronger so I’d wait untill they get some changes too.
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Reasonable.
I’d certainly have urgency if someone was running at me with a primed grenade.
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I don’t want to be killed by AI while cooking an explosive pack, so I oppose this proposal.
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I don’t think this is the right way to go about this, as it would likely cause a really bad issue where you cook a grenade behind a corner, pop around to throw and get instantly dropped.
Then you would face the issue where people would start trying to throw uncooked grenades, and the AI would just throw them right back!
I’m gonna try to do a post either tomorrow or the next day with suggestions to the AI aggro and targeting issues. Keep an eye out for it!
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If you don’t want to be killed, maybe play some singleplayer games with god mode on.
Personally I’m fed up with ppl who are affraid of their targets (AI) shooting back. They hold back the game development.
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I don’t think it works this way with shooting bullets (at least I haven’t observed it) so there is no reason to make it work with cooking.
If it’s a real player who killed me, I have nothing to say, but let an AI have a higher chance of killing me, forget it.
Let me point out your true intention, because tanks are always killed by cooked explosives, so you want AI to protect your tanks, so that you can drive your little tank carefree and activate true God mode 
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first of all,
idk what are you on about.
literally, just like in real life, soldiers do target high value/priority treats.
if you see a guy with an rpg or some sort of explosives approaching a friendly tank, you’d be a fool to try to get someone else.
second of all, unless you’re taking cover, chucking the grenade, cook it and then expose your self to then throw it at the last moment,
i have literally no clue what would be the problem if you can partially work around it.
it adds more depth and validicity.
not some dumb chicken with rifles.
but you do you.
you are entitled to your opinion after all.
sounds a bit of a sorry exscuse though.
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To me, AI doesn’t behave like humans at all. You can almost tell if a soldier is AI or human just by looking at it in 5 seconds. DF’s bots are just so unintelligent. So for me, mechanisms like “AI is more like to target you if you shoot a lot” have nothing to do with making AI behave more like a human. This is simply a balancing mechanism in games.
AI will not choose the right position at all. Their movements are rigid and unchanging. They will stand in an open position and hinder your construction work. Unless DF gives a complete overhaul of the bots, this small mechanism modification will not make me feel like the bot is human and provide more immersion.
So, for me, this kind of mechanism modification is just a balance adjustment, and trying to blow up a tank with an explosive pack on a flat ground is a very efficient behavior. You cannot measure the game based on the principles of reality, after all, if we follow the principles of reality, everyone will spare their lives and therefore produce a large number of shameful campers.
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So basically “AI is bad so it’s not worth to improve it untill it gets improved”. I don’t think it will get us anywhere.
Waiting for some magical “big fix” is naive, world doesn’t work this way. Most of the time things improve with small steps and I propose such step.
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What you need to know is that all tactical actions are not cost free.
From a theoretical perspective, of course, no matter what you do, it’s best to have a cover, but reality is not always as ideal as theory. Just like when someone asks what to do when encountering fierce firepower and you say you only need to flank them, it’s irresponsible.
This kind of modification indeed affect balance, and I don’t think the balance between infantry and vehicles needs to be modified now, it’s just that simple.
To take a step back, even if AI really are more likely to shoot a soldier holding a grenade, I won’t give up cooking explosive packs on flat ground because it is indeed the most efficient way, from a gaming perspective.
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that’s the point.
isn’t it.
sounds like you’re afraid of consequences.
because i would like to reassure, that just because you have a cooking grenade in your hand, that doesn’t mean AI will instantly snap you.
it just means they will start shooting at you.
fairly sure many red army ( or pretty much any other nation with satchel, panzerknachtal or whatever that anti tank grenade is called ) soldiers during ww2 were cutted down when attempted to try that.
even with, or without cover.
so… someone managed to survive to tell the tale, others did not.
especially in a game, it’s much easier.
plus, if you are THAT afraid, would be a great time to start using engineers and at cannons or anti tank troopers.
it really doesn’t.
you slighlty change a way of taking out targets. not removing all the others.
of course. you do you.
but you, as much as i, when cooking grenades, still have to get shot and be somewhat of a priority to AI.
AI are supposed to be helpers and tactically speaking a squad.
not some sort of zombies with weapons.
there is a clear difference.
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Scenario : I am in a trench or proned 5 meters away from you and you know i am where (vaugly) from my shots but cants see my body.
How can you tell i am about to charge or cooking a grenade ?
Answer; unless you have magicall abilities to see future, you fking cant. You can only guess.
Also in which circumstances they are going to shoot me ?
100 meters away while i am sniping ?
10 meters away i am using a mg ?
So we screw over all mg players because they shoot so much than other meanwhile snipers wwill chill because they idiot bots can do anything to them.
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I’m not quite sure what you mean by the consequences, nor do I quite understand how you came to this conclusion.
I think you’ve probably confused the concepts of opposition and fear. Even if the game really changes as you said, I will still play as usual. As you said, whether there is cover or not, whether the AI mechanism is changed or not, soldiers holding grenades may be shot down. For me, this is just a small change in the game experience, but it doesn’t mean I support it.
As for whether this affects balance, it depends on the threshold at which you feel changes in balance. Just like how recently DF has strengthened AI, although everyone actually play as usual after the change, it has indeed changed some balance. just not that significant.
great.
and that’s what it needs
even if you believe it will not change much, that’s on you.
no questions about it.
it’s just something needed to make the AI slighlty more useful, realistic and improvements needed for the overhall experience.
( as for the " opposition " that’s not really something concrete if you ask me. or maybe it’s just me )
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Just make AIs’ aggro vs player with a grenade if he is in their los? Isn’t it obvious?
Dude, this is already in the game.
And apparently it’s so bad and gamebreaking that you didn’t even noticed it.
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I have. Usually when I’m aiming and using the “peak” function. Try coming around a corner on some bots while actively aiming, and then get back to me.
I’d like to address this right here. The issue that I am seeing is that you are only taking into account interactions with explosive packs, which means that is likely your only concern.
Since you like the theoretical perspective course, let me point this out:
Why are you solely relying on explosive packs?
Theoretically, using an AT launcher would be more safe and effective should that suggested change be made, so why not use them? There are plenty available after all!
The reason being is that explosive packs have become drastically overpowered in comparison.
The fact that any soldier can carry a grenade with that much versatility and the ability to do the job of something else that was designed for that specific purpose (AT weaponry) more effectively, is a huge balancing issue.
I think changing AI to focus on prioritization of aggro needs to happen. Which if there is someone readying a grenade, close-by, and in view of the AI, then that target should be the priority. MY only concern is to make sure that they aren’t getting the ability to become omniscient, and pop you the moment you come around a corner, when they haven’t been able to see you prior to that.
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I don’t think the explosive pack is too powerful.
From a common sense perspective, it seems natural that AT launchers are more suitable for anti tank attacks than explosives, but this is a game and no one has stipulated that regular infantry cannot use grenades against tanks. The explosive pack is just a way for you to blow up tanks faster and safer than TNT.
Indeed, even if we don’t have explosive packs, we can still use TNT to blow up tanks, but I just don’t want to sacrifice my convenience to make AI look smarter, while some people think the opposite. The difference between us is just that. I didn’t expect my casual “I don’t want it” reply to hurt so many people’s nerves.
Why in the world should cooking a grenade draw the attention of AI?
It’s only a period of waiting which does not create any more noise than the movement which already exists.
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