Have you played warthunder? Its really not that hard to determine.
Planes are not currently even involved in the game. Nothing else interacts with them. AA is useless.
99% of the time it’s players who just spawned with their planes, flew the 3kms, fired all their machine gun ammo, dropped their rockets or bombs and crashed in the process, if the Endlisted support isn’t able to see that, it’s because they created their game without actually playing it!
I know, I created this post for this very reason, but we need to define “suicide” as precisely as possible if we want to implement any sort of penalty for it. It needs to be concrete AF, so you can’t claim it wasn’t deliberate.
People already rage just about every game about something - arty, mortars, CAS, stuck bots, etc., we need to try and find a way to reduce it.
Edit: now that I think about it, maybe if XP is removed from the picture, the definition can be broaden. Say, you crashed within a minute after spawning - no negative XP, but you can’t spawn planes this match anymore (or can’t spawn them for a certain period of time).
Suicide or not, but you’ve destroyed an expensive piece of equipment almost immediatelly, so you are not trusted by command with another plane. So long as it’s not classed as a “suicide” (because again - people will loose their shit if they are called suicide bombers when in fact they’ve crashed for a different reason). Just show them a message, like: “industry can’t keep up with your demands” 
TBH the amount of work that would be needed to make a system to identify wheather some one legit crash or intentionally crash/crash via inability would be really hard to make
Or we could just ask them to fix plane controls (nerfing is NOT having the intended consequences) and also buff the hell out of AA for ACTUAL anti air use. Currently the only players who kill bombers are bombers, and having players in their own little side game above everyone else is hardly what Id call ‘fun’
Its already done well in warthunder, if you crash without input from players in a timeframe (say the last 15-30s) then its suicide. Doesnt matter if inability or intentional
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Again, you need to be more specific, because “fix”, “nerf” and “buff” are way too broad, and the devs are known for going way too far with these requests: “oh, you want us to nerf it? Ok, it now deals no damage, instead it just gives your enemy a general sense of sadness. You want to buff it? Ok, now it destroys half the planet every time you use it.”.
What do you mean by fix plane controls?
But there is input here. They drop their bombs right before they crash. Plus, it’s not that difficult to fool such system - just do some pitching/rolling, and you are not a suicide bomber anymore, no penalty, good to go for another run.
Input from another player AKA if you die without being shot in the last 30s its a suicide, if you were shot, that shooter gets the kill.
Go play warthunder its quite an easy system to get to grips with.
And by fix plane controls i mean GO PLAY WARTHUNDER. This games controls are cancerous as a measure to try and balance them. Warthuner has some of the better plane flight controls of games around.
Can we not resort to this? We are trying to give the devs some solid info, simply suggesting them to go play other games and do it the same way it’s done there is unrealistic.
There are problems with this solution too, like my plane can be substantially damaged by another pilot, but I somehow manage to keep it flying for longer than 15/30 seconds, and then crash. That other pilot, who deserves that kill is not getting it. And I am considered a suicide bomber simply for trying to save my plane. So, two people who were trying their best and didn’t do anything wrong - one is robbed of a deserved kill, one is punished for being a suicide bomber.
Dude its their own game. I am trying to give you a baseline from a product from the exact same company. this game has had the controls dulled down from that game, so the only way to describe how to fix it is to show you the baseline.
Yes those problems exist in warthunder too. But it also promotes follow through. You can try and social justice hero for everyone, but this solution is already a working model in another game from the same company that has some elements of combined arms already AND has some degree of balance.
At least these changes would encourage players to fight one another as opposed to suicide.
But it isn’t, though, Darkflow (Enlisted developers) were not involved in WT development, AFAIK. I don’t know what are the terms of their partnership with Gaijin and whether or not they have access to the WT source code. It seems they do, but this is a speculation.
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Considering they are using the extremely detailed specs for vehicle modelling id say there is ample evidence they do.
Dig up dude.
A farther rearming point would increase the time between bombing runs, but at the cost of forcing pilots to waste more time doing nothing and not being useful to the team.
I rather suggested to turn the current rearm point into a RTB point. The plane despawns without being considered killed, a cooldown timer starts (pretending the plane is going back to base to rearm) and the player can play other squads in the meantime.
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This is probably the best one so far, I like it.
i like this idea but i think it would make planes little too redundant, for how long would they need to wait, and when do that when you can move the restock point back father to replicate the same about of time?
But it can be adjusted, like you get two/three rearms, and then it’s an RTB (icon changes). It’s actually quite flexible in that regard.
Plus, it could be developed further, like, RTB gives you XP too. Some substantial amount to make you actually want to survive those however many bombing runs you have. The amount could be based on received damage - the more damage you received, the more XP you get if you manage to return to base - again, incentivizes players to try and stay in the air.
Crash-landing (if plane survives, i.e., is not on fire, doesn’t explode) could also count as “Returned to Base”.
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this is a better idea
Great idea.
maybe you can select if you want to rearm(2/3 times ofc) or RTB (maybe you are damaged and want to go back), but limiting this action only if you are not engaging combat, as this could be exploited.
This is Serpiko82’s idea, I merely expanded upon a little. Serpiko82, I think it deserves another thread, because it’s genuinely a good idea, but only a few people will read this whole thread and stumble upon it.