Addressing Phosphorous Grenade Spam in the Game: Suggestions for the Developers at Darkflow

[arrogant_frenchy]

To help Darkflow address the issue of phosphorous grenade spam in the game, I’ve gathered several ideas from this thread : time to nerf phosphorous grenade . Here are the suggestions we’ve come up with to nerf grenade spam in general:

• Restrict players from carrying two of the same type of grenade; they can carry one phosphorous, one frag, and one dynamite, but not two of the same type.

• Make a distinction between lethal grenades (frag, dynamite, Molotov, phosphorous…) and non-lethal grenades, so that players can only carry one lethal grenade in their pouch and fill the rest with smokes or other items. This is my favorite idea because it encourages the use of smokes and other underused items.

• Nerf the phosphorous grenade by reducing the diameter of the smoke and preventing it from going through walls, among other changes.

• Limit the use of phosphorous grenades to only a few specialist roles. My original idea, but now I believe the problem is more linked to pouches than the grenade itself.

• Remove grenade pouches entirely

We believe that one or several of these ideas will improve the gameplay by addressing the issue of grenade spam. Thank you for considering these suggestions.

Cheers

[CN_RamboSnoop]

@arrogant_frenchy

Restrict players from carrying two of the same type of grenade; they can carry one phosphorous, one frag, and one dynamite, but not two of the same type.

i think the best way forward is along this line, although by restricting grenades by squad instead of by soldier.

[_fi_nal]

I would propose the following: the wp smoke no longer causes any health damage, but reduces speed and applies damage to stamina.

Fire works as usual.

[Greenky]

I really think that there is should be restriction to carry only 1 grenade that can deal dmage (no restrictions for smoke),maybe some exceptions for some classes but right now game looks like explosion festival. Its very sad.

[HeilChel2K]

The most ironic thing is that I don’t see any complaints from those who use three molotovs, if you’re going to follow your plan then ban all soldiers from having two grenades of the same type, are you tired of dying while camping a capture point because of the phosphorus grenade? Simple don’t camp or use your own grenades.

Edit: You died so much to grenades that now you don’t want to have the grenade bag anymore and soon you won’t want the grenades in the game either lol, you have to choose which backpack you want to use, either have grenades or have ammo

[cangfeng197]

Adding animations for grenades to be removed and fused and ready to throw, players can no longer run around while twitching their arms to quickly throw large amounts of explosives - not the perfect solution, but it doesn’t have to keep players who have already spent a lot of silver orders from using what they bought.

[Lisqs]

also it doesn’t show whether you’re taking damage due to WP. you can die being unaware of dying.

[Lisqs]

@HeilChel2K

Simple don’t camp or use your own grenades.

“simply don’t play objective or add another brick into this wp/nade abuse madness”

[_i4i]

@HeilChel2K

either have grenades or have ammo

Or you could do as i do and run a small back pack with medkit/tools, very handy for fixing tanks

[tommyZZM]

Consider the amazing Sinners Soul

[arrogant_frenchy]

First, who are you talking to ? Use Reply or quote

@HeilChel2K

The most ironic thing is that I don’t see any complaints from those who use three molotovs

Are you sure you don’t live on an other planet ? So many people complain about molotov and fire in general

@HeilChel2K

if you’re going to follow your plan then ban all soldiers from having two grenades of the same type

That’s indeed one of the option, so you agree with it ?

@HeilChel2K

are you tired of dying while camping a capture point because of the phosphorus grenade? Simple don’t camp or use your own grenades.

Watch my original post, I explain why it’s a game design issue, and why it’s boring for the majority of players (even for people using phosphorous grenade).

@HeilChel2K

Edit: You died so much to grenades that now you don’t want to have the grenade bag anymore and soon you won’t want the grenades in the game either lol, you have to choose which backpack you want to use, either have grenades or have ammo

Since you like to make assumption on other players, I’m guessing you are a player who bought a lot of phosphorous grenade and pouches. You realised that you make much more kills by killing the few players who play the objective by spamming these grenades rather than using your guns. And you feel threaten by this threat who tries to to nerf this exploit, because you’ll have to use your guns again.

I understand that it may seem like players who complain about grenades are just frustrated because they die to them a lot, but it’s actually more of a balance issue. Grenades should be a useful tool in the game, but they shouldn’t be so powerful that they overshadow other aspects of gameplay.

[tommyZZM]

I want the player still able to spend something like respawn score so they can still conditionally equip 3 grenades. in single match

For example, spend 1500 soul points to deploy a squad like this

Such battlefield has more diversity and choices.

---

Why can’t I have a valid reason, like less respawn points, to use the ba11 and stugIII A, I paid for. I want such a valid reason, not that I have to suffer in order to play a premium thing for FUN. but no FUN would be here, witholut a resaon.

[BandytaJeden]

@arrogant_frenchy

and preventing it from going through walls

Don’t worry, it will be fixed three times in next updates, just like flamethrowers no longer kill throgh walls

[HeilChel2K]

@arrogant_frenchy

That’s indeed one of the option, so you agree with it ?

I never agreed with this idea, it makes no sense to complain about soldiers using more than two grenades, do grenadiers and engineers use both explosive and smoke grenade bags for construction, what is your solution for this? if that is the case, do not create a problem but a solution, specify which classes have access to a certain backpack, such as doctors with more kit, assault with more ammunition and willing to deliver to other soldiers without the need for an engineer, and etc. Now wanting to simply end something because it’s bothering you, it doesn’t make any difference to me I just don’t keep camping at one point

[arrogant_frenchy]

I did not agree with all the solutions, but I added them because other players came up with it (again watch the first thread I linked with all the comments). Right now I believe that the 2 first options are the best for the game.

@HeilChel2K

it doesn’t make any difference to me I just don’t keep camping at one point

You made that point clear in your previous message. But some people like to play the objectives.

[cangfeng197]

@tommyZZM

Why can’t I have a valid reason, like less respawn points, to use the ba11 and stugIII A, I paid for

Replacing the two tank limit with an Air Force type-based limit - one side can deploy several light tanks/US tank destroyers, several medium tanks/Soviet and German tank destroyers, and several heavy tanks (including Panthers) at the same time - would effectively prevent new players from using their initial tanks to crowd out veteran players from using more powerful tanks and give players a reason to use tanks like the M18. Not the perfect idea, and would require a larger map, but still a solution

@tommyZZM

I want the player still able to spend something like respawn score so they can still conditionally equip 3 grenades. in single match

No, the idea needs more polishing, for example, the fully upgraded infantry squads I have in Berlin - level 5 T2 infantry, fully upgraded automatic rifles, large ammo pouches, pistols, mines and projectiles - I have spent thousands of orders on them, and it is certain that if DF introduces “respawn points” or “souls” mechanic, then I would have to replace some of them with lower-ranking infantry and remove the automatic rifles and use semi-automatic rifles or even bolt-action rifles. So how am I going to be compensated for the huge amount of resources I’ve spent? And if respawn points are generous enough to allow me to easily deploy the most powerful squads in the game, then what is the point of them?

If this requires me to think twice before deploying them, then in a tough Normandy/Berlin matchup I will have to be trapped in a situation where “I need to deploy them to gain even a small advantage in a meatball fight, but at the same time they are no better than the cheapest three-man squad against the firepower of a P47/Ju188/tank or whatever. It’s easy to cost my team huge amounts of resources with no contribution.”

Good idea, but needs more polish

My suggestion is still to add throwing animations, the problem with white phosphorus is not just that it is too much, it throws too fast, too easy, covers too large an area and kills too quickly which is why WP spam appears.

[tommyZZM]

@cangfeng197

If this requires me to think twice before deploying them, then in a tough Normandy/Berlin matchup I will have to be trapped in a situation where “I need to deploy them to gain even a small advantage in a meatball fight, but at the same time they are no better than the cheapest three-man squad against the firepower of a P47/Ju188/tank or whatever. It’s easy to cost my team huge amounts of resources with no contribution.”

Anyway, if you analyze this in isolation, it’s just part of a lot more problems, gray areas and minimaps and such. Such as suicide planes.

So I suggest they make a new mode for this.

This way you can continue your robot farm battles in arcade mode unrestricted.

Maybe pewpewpew robot farm is also fun some time, but you know, there has been a robot farm for 2 years

@cangfeng197

I have spent thousands of orders on them

Do you think I am a player who lacks silver orders and copper orders?

It’s not because I dont have enough orders to get weapons, I want a fight with more variety and a bigger scale, fun to play.

I’m tired of fighting with advanced weapons that I can’t have any space to CHOOSE.

I mean REASONABLE CHOOSE not CHOOSE SUFFER

[cangfeng197]

@tommyZZM

your robot farm battles

This is an unwarranted accusation, if I liked bot farms then I wouldn’t have raised the issue of 9 man infantry squads in Berlin and Normandy, why didn’t I go to Moscow and use Federov and AVS to harvest German bots, it was much easier and had a decent advantage of running into good German players? Both sides in Berlin and Normandy have good enough and well equipped players to provide an intense and tense game experience

@tommyZZM

Do you think I am a player who lacks silver orders and copper orders?

I don’t lack either, but I don’t like the idea of confiscating what I’ve already given and not compensating me for it, and not everyone doesn’t lack

[tommyZZM]

Even, I hardly expect them to do that in arcade mode.

They just need to provide a separate mode for new look of the game, or enable CRSED’s Soul Score feature in the editor

This will have zero impact on your normal games by Start Game.

I’m completely disappointed and tired of the Start Game modes.

Right now I click Start Game just to do quests and upgrade some squad soldiers for me to play Custom Games.

We already have a lot of forms in custom games, spaceship battles, laser guns, CSGO style dust maps

[cangfeng197]

It makes perfect sense to provide similar functionality in the editor, which is nowhere near perfect, but the problem of WP spam and not-quite-op, but interesting premium squads rarely making an appearance exists throughout the game。

Arcade mode? Arcade mode is the reason I play this game, I can easily turn it on after work and enjoy an intense or relaxing game without the worry of losing a lot of players after a new release like in COD, or the community server politics like in the Battlefield series, or dealing with the awful officer play enthusiasts in HLL and SQ

@tommyZZM

you can imagine the player can call in Katyusha rockets to cover the area, and there are 283mm rail guns

I like the idea you mentioned earlier of relying on airpower striking artillery positions to temporarily disable the enemy’s ability to call in artillery, but I doubt DF would bother adding that mechanic to the main game, I’ve experienced times when everyone on the team could call in artillery at the same time

@tommyZZM

I know some players claim that all WW2 stuff is out in this game.

Flamethrower tanks with good armour protection like the KV8, OT34, Sherman/Churchill Crocodile, KV2, ISU152 and other tanks with large calibre main guns cannot be added well to existing small map CQC games and need larger, more epic maps to work with.

Smaller vehicles like the Sdkfz222 can’t be added to existing campaigns as it’s also a bit too weak compared to the initial squad (maybe adding to Moscow or Tunisia after removing its cannon overheat would be an idea, or adding the ability to call for faster hits and more accurate artillery for such reconnaissance carriers and command tanks?)

Half-tracked troop carriers like the Sdkfz251 and M5 aren’t being introduced just because DF is lazy, we already have motorbike squads with similar mechanics, maybe they’re waiting for Kursk to introduce bigger maps, hopefully.

Not to mention the Jadgtiger, Ferdinand, ISU152, IS2 obj1944 (which I keep saying would be completely useless even if it came out if it still couldn’t penetrate a Panther hull), King Tiger H, Panshin/Super Panshin and all these war beasts, we don’t even have a free unlockable Stug III, which is rather ironic for a game that partly features WW2 vehicles

Funny, two Chinese communicating in English on the forum of a Russian game made by a Latvian studio

@tommyZZM

Consider the amazing Sinners Soul

Call them supply points, ammo points, or limit certain weapons to T2/T3 soldiers only (elite troops and all that), and call them sinner’s souls always think it feels like I’m shooting a necromancer with a bunch of black magic zombies instead of a WW2 soldier with a robot teammate - although it’s about the same fight

@tommyZZM

It’s just the same thing as sssome players who broadcast the game live on the live broadcast platform no longer play this game.

The problem with losing players is not the arcade mode, it’s the boring and unchanging arcade mode - the game modes can now be summed up as occupy a warzone, occupy two warzones at once, occupy more warzones than your opponent, occupy a moveable warzone and occupy and defend a warzone - and they all use the same, unoptimised map design (think Pacific Tainaru River)，where the core of victory is shooting more enemies faster.

@tommyZZM

Even if you have the stug III A, you don’t use it,

I believe a Stug III that doesn’t interfere with teammates deploying PzIVs while carrying a lot of HE is more valuable than the current little toy, which is why I think the introduction of larger maps should be accompanied by the introduction of air force-like variety restrictions and the ability to customize shells for ground vehicles while an unlockable Stug III could sacrifice some anti-infantry capability for better frontal protection and the ability to destroy T34s head-on for those who haven’t yet unlocked the PzIV F2(like T50,powerful 45mm cannon with weak HE,goood armor and motility but turret turned slowly）