Has much i speeded some of time today. i have one last and good ideia.
You guys may not know, but in WWII the soldiers where instructed to get in prone, if artilhary fall down.
Why? because fisics and the bombs of the time have the folowing aspect. they fire go up since the heat go up (fisics). meaning that if you are in prone. you will able to avoid the overal range of the bomb. because it blow has a cone toward up.
so let,s think that a bomb fall, ok. 3 meters o explosion, if you are in prone, it will be twice less the range of the bomb. meaning that 1.5 meters of the explosion. so if it,s raining duck for cover.
i posted it, because i see alot of guys complaing about artilhary, for me, i am hardcore gamer, and it,s fine has it is. but will add realism, has well âânerfââ (i mean couter) just check history books and you will see. that this actualy happen in WWII actualy.
So it is not the fire or heat that kills you. It is the shockwave that snaps your spine or the shrapnel (could be just a tiny rock being blown away, at that force, it acts as a bullet.
Going phrone is just like the best option you have to block eachother from the above mentioned, so only the closest one(s) die. It does not protect you. The other (soon to be dead) soldier protects you with his body.
that why i alerdy posted helmets to be a feature. maybe the helmet will increse this effect? helmets where not designed to stop bullets (at this time they don,t have kevlar) but to help in this tatic. i also see a report that WWI (that right WWI) helmets where better for that, that the kevlar ones designed to stop bullets.
still. quite nice you adition. let,s check out if can get more info in the discusion.
Helmets were just a fashion thingy. They did NOT protect the soldier from any type of damage, other than, a BONK to the top of the head. They were to identify the soldiers (rank, country, etc) from afar. Even if a helmet stopped a bullet, your neck would snap instantly, by the seer force.
Thats not completely correct. Shockwave is a minor effect unless your dealing with huge cannons 200mm+ or in an enclosed area.
Going prone vastly reduces the effect of both shrap and shockwave. Both originate from the shell in an upwards cone/funnel shape projection. Someone who is prone can be half or even 2/3 close to the explosion and suffer less or equal to someone standing.
To the OP I believe prone already helps protect from both arty and grenades. That said the arty strikes are too nerfed as is with the increased timing on them.
Thanks for the info. Thou we were talking about HUGE CANNONS (artyl). They are HE shells, so they dont have shrapnel in them, so the shockwave is the big thingy with them.
I agree that they are overnerfed at the moment. Not really fun to use either.
Thats completely false. While WW2 helmets were basically not bulletproof in any fashion. They do heavily help with shrap from arty and other things.
As for neck snapping⌠WTF where did you even hear that BS.
First off anything that can possible cause that type of âsnappingâ requires huge amounts of kinetic force. Theirs no way for a WW2 helmet to stop that⌠not even sure a modern helmet could stop that type of force. The round or whatever would easily penetration the helmet unless said round literally was huge and thus took the whole head off, helmet and all.
sometimes, but rarely. maybe helmets will give 2.5 percent o chance of surving a headshoot? meaybe give a stun has hell. after all a headhshoot is never a candy thing.
Helmets helped massively in preventing deaths due to shrapnel and debris kicked up from explosions in WW1 and WW2 by all official reports from all sides in both wars.
The point of dropping prone was to make you less likely to be impacted by shrapnel and the like in the first place, which have a far longer lethal range than the explosion itself.
For example, 1kg of TNT has a lethal explosive radius of 5-10 meters by the blast effect in and of itself. But the shrapnel kicked off by a fragmentation explosive munition of such a yield may have a lethal range as far as 40-60 meters away. However, due to the poor aerodynamics of such, such bits of shrapnel are usually well subsonic, and can easily be deflected by any thin layer of metal armor, such as that used for helmets.
Such shrapnel were exactly the cause of most fatalities in pilots, for example, which is why air crews were issued flak jackets, which was just thin sheet metal behind a layer of cloth. Later armor issued to soldiers, such as the soviet armored bib, or the US M12, also was effective in stopping shrapnel. (as well as pistol rounds) and were not made of thicker material than the helmets worn by soldiers throughout.
Just mixing the discusion of helmets whith that one. only Contro C and V.
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the helmets has be donne to increse the thoughnest agaist bombs, it will decrease the time a bomb will supress your soldiers,
still, later, BUT very later in campaign, we can get boby armors that HAS EXISTED in WWII, in fact they where not efective. but since they got alot of SMG roling around, it actualy protected agaist low calibrer bullets, germans used to give to STG44 SS soldiers. to ensure those tough guys being a bitter tough.
one bronze card will buy one helmet, meybe 35 percent of supresion from granades maybe? and the boby armor must give limited amounght of protection, maybe 25 increse of vitality? 3 bronze cards will bought this protections will be nice though.
i know some soldiers wear it, and some not. but let,s make it no longuer a skin, but actualy a equipment. that have stats.
This is insanely subjective based on countless other factors. An arty shell fired with 1kg of tnt in it doesnât have close to a lethal range of 5-10 meters blast wave. 1-3 meters tops.
Further lets take the 6 pixie powder sticks in-game that they call âexplosivesâ. Those things wouldnât hurt a tank unless placed in very specific places and even then only the lightest of tanks would be effected.
I believe when the finns where fighting the russian they used around 15-30kg to blowup the russian tanks. Typically they were required to place it on the back deck of the tank above the engine as that resulted in the engine exploding.
According to CDC numbers, a lethal radius of 5-10 meters for blast effects is correct for 1kg of TnT, with 90% occurrence of blast lung at 5 meters, and 5 percent occurrence rate of blast lung at 10 meters. (which is more or less a guarantee of a kill within an hour without proper hospitalization, which rather obviously soldiers in WW2 arenât going to be getting, even in a field hospital.) Instant lethality within 3 meters due to ruptures within the brain, major arteries, and/or heart.
Smaller explosive charges were found to be effective against a tank, the only unrealistic aspect to it being that the explosive charges arenât needing to be physically in contact with the tank while they deal the damage they do. Though usually such dealt damage through spalling and/or outright shattering poorly made armor, thus causing the crew to bail - rather than detonating anything inside the tank or physically destroying it on the whole.
Beyond the potential to harm the crew, itâs also far more than enough of a charge to break the tracks of a tank, and potentially the suspension as well, leading to a mobility kill of the vehicle. (given youâd have no luck repairing a set of tracks in under an hour. The suspension would take you a few hours if itâs a bogie at best, and with torsion bar or a christie suspension, youâre taking a cutting torch to it and waiting on a recovery vehicle to pull you out of there. All of which are effectively a dead vehicle in the middle of a battle IRL)
Yes the CDC least the worst case and max danger. As I said insanely subjective and as I said 1kg in an arty is not even close to those numbers.
When arty hits the ground it will dig in. The softer the ground and the longer/more defective the fuse the deeper it goes. This heavily reduces the blast wave. Shrap can be a toss up. Even snow as little as 6 in can heavily damped the blast wave.
HE tank rounds are effected by this as well but in another odd way. When a tank fires an HE round to have the highest chance to kill the target it should aim about 3m behind the target. The HE round will dig into the ground on an angle and the majority of shrap and blast in fact goes backwards. You can be vastly closer to an HE round landing in front of you then behind you.
Once again CDC numbers are based on the worse case for the people.
Yeah they were shaped charges not random sticks of pixie dust.
Yes and no. Yes some lighter loads like 5kg can cause spalling. However spalling in it self is meaningless. You need to get that spalling in the crew compartment or to hit something really important. Once again requiring very specific locations.
As yes these types of attacks and weapons were almost exclusively to track the tank because against anything over 20mm they were basically useless in 99% of real world battles to hurt the tankers themselves.
Actually, a number of anti-tank hand grenades of WW2 were high explosive, not just HEAT. Take the German Geballte Ladung, the Soviet RPG-40, or the British No. 73, No. 74 ST grenade and No. 75 Hawkins grenade. (the latter literally being just a 1 kg mass of explosives in a weather-proof casing utilizing a more standard hand grenade fuse.) Later war anti-tank grenades tended to be HEAT, yes, (with the exception of the British who joined the cult of HESH) but even still.
HEAT anti-tank grenades and rounds were both used at the start of WW2. HE grenades like the ones you list have a proven track record of utter and complete failure. They were tried and they failedâŚbadly.
Once again its all about location of the grenade/explosive going off. Tossing these things like they are tossed ingame aka typically at the tracks on the ground would result in a whole lot of nothing. Which once again why such weapons needed to be placed in key areas such as the back deck of the tank.
The no.75 Hawkins Grenade was found to be highly effective at achieving mobility kills on tanks, and used in a light anti-tank grenade role through the use of a string to pull the pin when a tank rolled over it, especially when multiple grenades were daisy-chained together.
US troops were impressed enough by it to produce the M7 light anti-tank mine, which used a larger charge of 1.6kg, which was more reliably able to disable the tracks and suspension of heavier panzers, as well as being able to punch through the top and bottom armor plates of such vehicles through explosive force alone when properly placed, though the increased weight meant that it could not be thrown a safe distance. The grenade-style pin was still the primary method of detonation, however, and it could be thrown as a grenade, and there are records of such being done from cover, in addition to the use of itâs pressure sensor that was available as a second detonation method.
Both explosives were also widely used as demolition charges as well, and were present in use by Allied forces at Normandy.