9 matchmaking tiers instead of 5

Link to sheet

There are 9 tiers of weapons. These are sorted closely by their datamined performance in Euth’s sheet.

The brackets are:

  • 1-5
  • 2-6
  • 3-7
  • 4-8
  • 5-9

Examples:

  • Someone with tier 4 weapons at most cannot meet tier 9.
  • Someone with tier 5 weapons can meet both tier 1 and tier 9 equipment, depending on the bracket set for that match.
  • Someone with tier 3 weapons at most cannot meet the majority of automatic rifles, nor will they encounter assault rifles.

Why 9 tiers?
To give nuance between the levels of performance between weapons. It also allows for more flexible categorization and brackets, and reduces the need to equip “best in tier” weaponry, allowing one to more finely control what weapons they face.

There are over 300 firearms in the game, and 5 tiers is insufficient for the categorization. Not only that, but we have vehicles ranging between 1.0 to 6.7 if we’re using War Thunder’s Battle Rating system for a reference.

As an example, if we were to list the tiers by their equivalent battle ratings in War Thunder, ie 1.0, 1.3, 1.7, 2.0, etc…, we would have as many as 18 different tiers for vehicles alone.

This means that, if translated into a 5-tier system, vehicles will not be able to fully occupy a niche that is actually appropriate for their performance due to how compressed it is. We need more then 5 matchmaking tiers.

For brevity, here is my characterization of the 9 tiers. These presume stats at maximum upgrade level, with no other modifiers. I haven’t made such a list or table for vehicles, but it should be relatively straightforward to convert their War Thunder BRs to a 9-tier system.

Tier 1

  • 5-6-capacity bolt-action rifles with 59 and below rpm
  • Double barrel shotguns
  • Lowest capacity and extremely low rpm submachineguns with mediocre handling
  • The Chauchat
  • Single-shot AT rifles below 40mm of penetration

Tier 2

  • 5-6-capacity BA rifles with 60-69 rpm
  • 10-capacity BA rifles with below 60 rpm
  • The De Lisle
  • 5-6-capacity shotguns
  • 20-capacity SMGs with average rate of fire and handling
  • 30-32 capacity SMGs with either a below-average rpm or handling
  • 20-capacity LMGs with mediocre rpm, handling or both
  • Single-shot AT rifle with 40mm of penetration
  • Bolt-action AT rifle with 30mm of penetration

Tier 3

  • Anti-infantry rifle grenade launchers mounted on 5-capacity BA rifles and carbines
  • 5-capacity BA rifles with above 70rpm
  • 25-capacity BA rifles with 52rpm
  • 5-6-capacity SA rifles
  • 15-30-capacity pistol carbines with pistol damage
  • 25-capacity SMGs with either above-average rpm
  • 32 capacity SMGs with average rpm and below-average handling
  • 40-capacity SMGs with below-average rpm
  • 20-30-capacity LMGs with average-to-above-average rpm and below-average-to-average handling
  • Semi-automatic AT rifles with over 40mm of penetration
  • Anti-infantry grenade launchers
  • HEAT weapons with 60-70mm of penetration

Tier 4

  • 25 capacity bolt-action rifles with 59-62 rpm
  • Anti-infantry rifle grenade launchers mounted on 10-capacity BA rifles
  • 10-capacity BA rifles with 69 rpm
  • 30-capacity carbines with AR damage
  • 30-40-capacity SMGs with average rpm and average handling
  • 20-capacity SMGs with above-average rpm and damage per hit
  • 20-capacity “mobile” LMGs with below-average handling
  • HEAT weapons with 80-90mm of penetration

Tier 5

  • Dual-purpose AP/AT grenade launchers mounted on 5-capacity BA rifles
  • 8-capacity SA rifles
  • 10-capacity SA rifles with below-average reload rates
  • 30-40-capacity SMGs with 600-800rpm and above-average handling
  • 47-50-capacity LMGs with 600-880rpm
  • 20-capacity “mobile” LMGs with average handling
  • HEAT weapons with 100-102mm of penetration
  • The Fliegerfaust

Tier 6

  • 10-capacity SA rifles with <3s reload times
  • Dual-purpose AP/AT grenade launchers mounted on 8-capacity SA rifle
  • 30-40-capacity SMGs with extraordinary rates of fire and/or handling
  • 50-capacity SMGs with average rpm and below-average handling
  • 50-capacity LMGs with over 880rpm
  • 20-30-capacity “mobile” LMGs with above-average handling

Tier 7

  • 20-30-capacity SA rifles
  • 10-capacity SF rifles
  • 50-71-capacity SMGs
  • 20-capacity AR with below-average rpm
  • 67-75-capacity LMGs
  • HEAT weapons with 180mm of penetration

Tier 8

  • 15-20-capacity SF rifles with inferior performance to end-tier variants
  • 76+ capacity SMGs
  • 30-capacity ARs with inferior performance to end-tier variants
  • 100+ capacity LMGs
  • HEAT weapons with 200mm of penetration

Tier 9

  • 15-20-capacity SF rifles with the best handling
  • 30-capacity ARs with the best handling
  • HEAT weapons with 220mm of penetration

For reference, here are the datamined stats provided by Euth.

I am more than willing to debate this idea, and to justify their placements, though the listed characterizations also serve as why they were categorically placed in such a tier.

6 Likes

It’s a nice idea, could the ppsh41 go to Moscow?
or volkstrum smg and rifle can be go only normandy and berlin?

I cared not for the map, but purely by their performance as per Euth’s datamine sheet.

Besides, the devs themselves have already made concessions regarding map restrictions and weapons/vehicles that would supposedly suit the environment.

The game, as much as we like to try, is already ahistorical, so I focused on balancing what we have based on the information I have.

Looks better than current 5BR system, but there are some weird placements like most op LMG in a game which is Fedorov MG at Tier 5 while MG42 Early at Tier 6 (it’s still great gun but nowhere near as powerful as Fedorov Avtomat but in MG format). M9 Bazooka is way too powerful compared to Sturmpistole (70mm) and GrB-39.


2 Likes

there is just one problem with your suggestion… big increase in number of MM queues that merge sought to reduce… also i am not fan of t5 facing t9

2 Likes

I see it as 25 round LMG with a 0.3 ADS (Same as other LMGs) modifier in exchange for no move penalty.

This means that it is not ideal for snap-firing, and unlike other conventional LMGs with a ~50 rd magazine, it has half the ammunition, hence the placement.

The M9 Bazooka is in Tier 5.

The M1 Bazooka and Sturmpistole are both in Tier 3, with 60mm, and 70mm penetration, respectively.

Only in the circumstances when tier 5 doesn’t end up seeing anything lower.

At the bare minimum, tier 5 has access to 8-10 round semi-auto rifles and SMGs with above-average performance, along with BAR-type weapons that function like late-tier automatic rifles, but with a movement penalty.

It has the identical stats to the Fedorov Avtomat but it’s at tier5 instead 9. MG is just a label on this gun. It has 0 ADS penality and zero mov speed penality. It’s too op to be at BR5.

There are differences between the two in places like reload time, dispersion, ADS time, vertical recoil and recoil direction.

I wouldn’t call them identical. Similar, sure.

However, ADS dictates how quickly you bring up the sights of the gun on your target. A low ADS speed (like with the fed MG) means you’ll be hipfiring with it most of the time, and unlike the other guns with similarly low ADS speeds on the same tier, it has half the ammunition capacity, and is relatively rare given its status as a premium weapon.

I wouldn’t call it OP, either.

My bad i was looking at the ADS while moving not ADS Speed. However even if ADS speed is slower it still feels better than MG42 Early and it also has lower dispersion than actual Fedorov when shooting after you ADS 0.16 vs 0.24 Recoil is identical, it has even less visual recoil and recoil direction. So def shouldn’t be at such low BR.

also i dont like the table. too many bolties too high up just like in current tech tree. not to mention there is big problem with vehicles…

make it 300 tiers for all i care

we barely have players to fill half campaigns currently in game

this will be nice to discuss in few years when we have playerbase to support more queues

6 Likes

How about three tiers each with three sub tiers sounds the same but is not
A Tier bolt action
B Tier semi auto
C Tier full auto/Assault
You would have sub-Tiers A+ A A-
Ok so here is the key A won’t fight B and B won’t fight C

not in depth but the idea is to separate weapons that are clearly of different caliber, bad joke but if you had three circle that separate, so the worst bolt action would at worse only get pitted against the best,

i know its a bad idea its mine and special, feel free to mock or ignore

Wouldn’t that just mean people would gravitate towards the best weapon in A, B and C?

Part of the reason is the absence of a robust matchmaking system. When you just start out the game and start seeing people sealclub you with automatic rifles and assault rifles, it’s not going to be a fun experience in an otherwise inferior and undermanned squad.

The game has too many guns for its own good when you have an average of 80 guns for each of the 4 different factions. The additional nuance increases the viability of some guns that would otherwise avoid facing things way outside their performance.

I’m glad another warrior is completely redesigning the BR tree.
Great job, with your own unique take on it.
Instead of belonging to the group that celebrates the so-called “two BR” fairy tale _ “The Emperor’s New Clothes”
Still, the professional df probably won’t care.
Seems like they’re sticking to it for the past few months.
PS: Just to gag some people who might be misrepresenting the theme and keyboard, here’s a draft of a scheme I briefly designed at one point. A “technical tree structure” created by myself - improved version - Suggestions - Enlisted

If there’s one thing that can be agreed on, it’s the fact the preview of the matchmaking system they implemented uh…

Needs work.