so I just got to SVT’s, got a couple, gave them to my snipers, thought I was prepared for the lower damage due to previous discussions… but no - not at all. hit a guy twice and doesn’t go wounded… do get the occasional headshot, but usually a hit on a running target and he doesn’t even seem to notice!
Now I get that there might be some “balancing” issues if they did “full” rifle damage… but I’d like to suggest that there are better ways of “balancing” SVT’s than nerfing the damage to the point of irrelevance!
SVT’s were rare weapons (relatively - 1.6 million were made!!!), and apparently mostly used by squad leaders, other NCO’s and “elite infantry” if we are to believe wiki.
So there should be some rank required to use them - and probably they should need a perk for their care since they were considered difficult to maintain.
so rather than nerf the damage - allow only 1 per squad, to be a rifleman, and introduce a required new perk “Care and use of SVT” at a relatively high level (4 or 5 star?).
I think one way is to make it so it’s a reliable 2 shot to down +1 to kill, bolt action should a clean one shot to kill, then smg’s being lets say 4 to down +1 to kill. Or they could remove the “downed state” so semi autos can get a reliable 2 shot.
“difficult to maintain” was by early soviet standards where they were giving mosins to peasants with virtually no training, so it meant more “has to be maintained”
I don’t think making it incredibly difficult to equip is the answer as Germany has no such limits. A damage buff is really all that’s in order as few squads have snipers to begin with.
Limits for Germany could be very little usage of semi automatic weapons in ww2 (G41 was 10 times as rare as the SVT)
This is a common myth
In some ways it’s true, but in some ways it’s not
Remember, Soviet army during the battle for Moscow was 2 times smaller than the opposing German attackers and they won
so the myth that soviets didn’t know how to hold a gun is not true.
It takes 10 minutes to teach someone how to clean a rifle
I mean germans were still more trained. Soviets won due to higher morale
This is a very good video explaining the whole situation
but within the game there are perfectly good ways to restrict usage that have at least a link to the problems the weapon had in real life. Personally I vastly prefer such mechanisms over a simplistic and UTTERLY unrealistic damage nerf.
as has been pointed out - semi auto weapons were even rarer for the Germans - so they can be made a rarer drop - you’ve got what… maybe 140,000 G41’s, 450,000 G43’s total? According to wiki the scale of use was to be 19 per infantry company for issue as the Company Commander saw fit - so that’s nominally 19 for 142 people, or about 1 for each 7-8 men. 10 were supposed to have scopes.
So again a limit of 1/squad is not unreasonable, especially given failure to reach that level. you could allow to a sniper in the squad too.
And also require a skill, but perhaps at a lower soldier level.
I’m saying there’s no reason for Russian weapons to be limited in number when German weapons aren’t. And the G41 didn’t exist yet during the battle of Moscow, so it’s not a factor.
I don’t see weapon limits being a good mechanic under any condition.
Why not? quantity of these was a real consideration in service, and the quantity of them is already a real consideration in the game.
So you can create a balance that involves quantity and reflects some aspects of real life, or you can artificially and unrealistically nerf them for a balance that is fantasy.
That’s not true.
G41 first saw service in mid 1941 and battle of Moscow takes place in late 1941- early 1942
But the G41 rifle was somewhat rare as it was proven to be less effective/reliable than the SVT-40
At the end, they made G43 which is a copy from SVT system (If I’m a german ingeneer I would rather copy an M1 Garand as it was better than the SVT but I’m not a ww2 expert)
Why would I limit those - they are already adequately balanced.
It is the SVT that is the issue - hence the specific title of the thread and the specific issues with the SVT I am proposing.
it has morphed a bit into discussion of balancing of semi-auto’s in general for the Sov’s and Axis - both of which had substantial, but still limited, numbers of SLR’s (as opposed to the Brits with none, and the USA with nothing but SLR’s!!).
Probably because there were no Soviets involved so yeah - SVT balancing wasn’t an issue!
You forgot the main problem - a totally screwed up and fantasy damage nerf.
I’m not proposing to “balance them further” - I am proposing to “balance them different” - the vast majority of SVT’s were NOT sniper rifles, and I am sure that as the game progresses they will (or should!) become available as a “standard” infantry rifle - 1.6 million of them were made after all!!
That’s actually an impressive number for an early war battle rifle.
SVT was not rare and squad leaders were either armed with SVT or PPSh (it depends on the range that squad fought in)
Some more elite squads had regular riflemen armed with SVT’s
Exactly my point. If it’s underperforming from the getgo, why say it’s an issue worth nerfing?
If you can see Garands up against Gewehrs and not draw conclusions of how that will look during the battle of Berlin, you need to lay off the paint chips.
With the preexisting limitations to them, again being lack of sniper slots and the high level needed to unlock them, I don’t think an SVT performing about on-par with the Garands and Gewehrs we see in Normandy would be a problem in Moscow.
Interesting fact is that SVT was actually produced until 1945. The production was only reduced in 1941 because army gained more interest towards PPSh and decided to push that gun instead
The other reason was that soldiers didn’t like using semi automatic guns and praised Mosin nagant
That was about production methods as well.
The SVT and PPSh had stamped receivers, while many other weapons like the Mosin and the PPD had milled receivers.
Stamping is far more efficient but takes much heavier, more expensive machinery to get started on, so SVTs would be competing with the PPSh for machinery to make them.
