Stop Defenders from Rushing Forwards

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1

In a lot of maps, the defending team can sprint forwards to the furthest out cover, then post there, making it impossible for the attackers to plant rallies anywhere, and effectively changing the terms of the engagement massively in favor of the defens.
This is a massive problem, especially with USSR / German maps and their god awful boundary balancing, but there’s a pretty simple temporary fix.
In the same way that defender players have a short period where they can spawn at a newly open point, and attackers have a short period before their default spawn moves forward, make it so that there is a short period at the beginning of the game where the map boundary for the defense is only very slightly forward of point.

This would encourage people to build defenses and fortifications on point, rallies behind or to the sides of (at worst) point, and allow the attackers a chance to gain useable positions.

It’s a very simple fix that would fix one of the most frustrating parts of a lot of maps (bridge battles in general, and any open maps)

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In the years i have played here as a engineer, to do what you just described,
has never occurred to me, to do it that way.

don’t think i seen it before, it always been rally’s at the back, sort of thing.

Hmmmm

edit, no matter how many times i go over it, i can not see it working.
it would mean the defenders would have to run 50-70m in front of there defense spawn in first place.
enemy spawns just over/under 150m?, they both running forward the required distance, to plant.

hmmm

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I appreciate that note, but I would ask where you are playing. At least in Soviet theatres, this is consistently an issue with the German side, especially with Stalingrad etc. maps where the map boundaries are already abominably poorly made. Try playing on a few higher ranked Soviet maps, and I guarantee you’ll get a few where engineers or at least germans will push the defense point to an unusable position. Your experiences are not universal.

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4

Good point, well yes i am not playing Germany or USSR.

But i do remember when all spawn points were made 50m,
that certain maps, you could actually have them at 30 meters, something like that.

So in hindsight, i guess it could be a issue

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5

Well, is actually good for the defender because it means the attacker did a very poor job attacking to let the defender push back

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6

Nope, not at the literal first seconds of the game. The attacker’s job in the first minute or two are to rush forwards, the defenders job should not be to rush back. The attackers need to get rallies down, as do the defenders, but if the defenders put rallies in locations from which the attackers cannot find cover, then the game goes down the toilet fast.
This change would still allow for engineers and defenders to move forward from the point (if you read the whole post), but just not for the first minute or thirty seconds of the game.

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7

What’s the difference? They will push you back either way, I mean there is not wven cap lock for defender so the attackers can just paradrop on the point and take it out before the defenders can arrive to hold it or even build a rally, if they start a match and meet you head on, you know you need to change your strategy

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Oh, it’s quite simple. The difference is 30 seconds to a minute. You see, if you start a match, you might notice that you have to run all the way to the point, as an attacker. Getting to any cover at all frequently takes a few seconds. This means that if the defender is immediately capable of seeing you, this interesting thing happens, where they shoot you, meaning you cannot advance past your default spawn point, meaning you have already lost the game.
Change your strategy? To what, exactly? If I spawn in the spawnpoint, I get shot in the face, because before I could find cover or get a rally down in a safe space, the defenders were already so far forwards that they could see me at the default spawn. So, what should I do? I can paratroop, onto a point full of men, and die. Yes, I take out a bunch, and then? Oh, then I have to spawn at the spawnpoint, because nobody can place rallies down, because if you spawn in you die.

Seeing the issue yet? I can paradrop men to somewhere else, and try to build a rally there, but that relies on me A) having and B) using paratroopers, and also C) them not getting killed the moment they’re seen, and even then it’s only one rally, probably not too close by the point.

I can spawn in a truck, and… get shot by an AT weapon, because, as previously mentioned, the default spawn point(s) are fully suppressed, because the enemy team had to run 20 metres to see me, and I had to run 50 metres to get to cover.

Would you like me to continue? If they ‘would push you back either way’, then why not put the attackers default spawn 50 metres away from the point? Would that have some issue with balance, or would you just need to ‘get good enough’ at the game to magically defeat the concept of bullets?

Without a chance to gain a foothold, you lose the game. That’s why the game is balanced to have the teams spawning away from each other, so that each team has a moment to collect itself, and begin to prepare. You remove that moment, or shorten it, and it begins to become a problem very quickly.

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By chage your strategy I mean you either build your rally further back or in a flank

Or you expect your enemy give you the time of the world to build your rally instead of shooting you the moment they see you?

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10

Kay, One last time I’ll try this.
The issue with these maps is that the defenders can move forward so they are suppressing the default spawn

I’ll reword that. The suggestion given makes it so that the defenders cannot easily or immediately fully suppress the attackers default spawn

A few definitions, if it helps.
The Default spawn is the only spawn point attackers get by default, and is frequently quite open at the beginning of the game
Fully suppressed means that when someone spawns, they have their second of invulnerability, and then their whole squad gets wiped

Things I am not talking about:
Having trouble pushing point 4 because the defenders entrenched point 3
Having trouble with a match where attackers struggle so much to play the game that the defenders gain the ability to push forwards
Taking too long to build a rally

Thing I am talking about:
Making it so that it is guaranteed to EXIT THE DEFAULT SPAWN at the start of the game (i.e., Point 1) as the attackers on all maps.

So, Can you build a rally further back? No. Because further back is at the default spawn. Because you can’t leave the default spawn.
Can you build a rally in a flank? No. Because you cannot reach a flank. Because, and, this is the issue we’re trying to address, you cannot leave the default spawn.

If there’s a miscommunication, I hope this cleared it up. If not, I’m not continuing this conversation.

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Oh so you mean spawn killing… well this work at both ways tbh

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12

Thats called “counter attack”
According to your logic we also have to remove confrontation mod.
If defenders not only defend but also manage to remove forward enemy rallies and making their job harder,
Then we have a very skilled team right there

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13

thats a classical case of attackers failing. if the defenders push straight forward, they leave open the flanks and the objective and attacking it from left and right becomes easy and the defenders get fucked in very short time.

this forward pushing is only good against weak attacking teams who dont think about strategy/get demoralized easily.

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14

I have a different idea. instead of strinking defender’s zoon. why not increase it. While attacker always have the option of attacking from more direction

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15

“this forward pushing is only good against weak attacking teams” Of course, it’s not true. : ))

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