I think it would be great to be able to equip one soldier in squad with other nation weapon (except normandy campaign). Or maybe do this as a perk.
It will be historically accurate and help with balance.
What do you think guys?
This wouldn’t hurt, it would add some uniqueness to every squad,
also no need for switching to the Germans to use your favourite MP 28,
when you prefer Soviets.
Overall, it’s a great idea.
This would take away uniqueness between the two factions.
There is many more opportunities for lend-lease equipment (american stuff in russia etc) or joint operation equipment (italian stuff in tunesia alongside the germans) that would add much more than just copy pasting equipment between nations.
It’s not like you as a Soviet could be stuffed with german equipment, one gun wouldn’t hurt,
and still, that’s quite realistic in historical manners.
And yes, it adds uniqueness, because adding stuff means more variety.
Making everything more homogenous is not “more variety”. Faction identity is important, on many levels.
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No. Captured small arms were only used in extremely rare cases as you didn’t exactly produce the enemy’s ammo. All the ammo would be pooled in one unit, which would use those weapons until they ran low enough on ammo that it became dangerous. But more often, they were simply scrapped and used as resources for weapons that actually used the ammo that side produced, as it was a logistical nightmare.
Tanks were used as they carried quite a lot of ammo on their own so that was not much of an issue. Even then, they were generally modified to use a diffrent gun that accepted the proper ammo after a short while.
Agreed
There is no “more variety” if you literally copy-paste weapons.
As I said, some guns, not full equipment.
Still, there would be more variety.
Still true, they did use some, not in big quantities obviously, as you said.
So it means it’s ok to implement that, and I’m repeating, not fully equipped.
So for the variety, what’s better?
-Selection of 10 Soviet guns
or
-Selection of 10 Soviet and 3 German guns?
That’s variety. With no costs whatsoever, models are already there.
But then both sides will have 6 overlapping guns, so less variety between both factions.
Just like women didn’t partake in the war as soldiers in “big quantities”. And just like female soldiers, captured guns should stay out of Enlisted.
Just gonna finish this quickly,
Overall, yes, less variety for everyone, I was thinking in terms of your personal squad.
But sure, you gonna argue to the end anyways, so you do you.
Can’t have shit in Detroit.
No. Captured small arms were only used in extremely rare cases as you didn’t exactly produce the enemy’s ammo. All the ammo would be pooled in one unit, which would use those weapons until they ran low enough on ammo that it became dangerous.
Well, we’re really talking two different situations; a more personal level of a soldier knicking enemy kit, and a more strategic decision on the use of enemy arms.
The more personal level happened all the time, especially on the German side during Barbarossa. The German infantryman of '41-'42 seemed to have quite a fondness of Soviet weapons, as can be seen in hundreds of surviving photos of them making use primarily of SVT38/40s and PPSh41s. It honestly would fit the game pretty well to have captured guns in this manner. If you want them to be more restricted make them only equipable to max level soldiers, who have really been there and done some things. Or make them spawn with even less ammo to start, even with the ammo perks.
The strategic side also happened more than people may think, and again quite heavily on the Axis side. The easy examples would be nations like Finland that basically took and used just about anything they could, logistics be damned. Though they did largely play a defensive roll so logistics may not have been too bad for them, and they primarily used the soviet 7.62x54r anyways.
The Germans weren’t too shy of using enemy equipment either. Tanks, field guns, small arms and so on. They rechambered roughly 10,000 PPSh41s to 9x19mm from what I’ve read. Plus the soviet 7.62 Tokarev cartridge was basically just a hotter loading of the German 7.63x25, which from my understanding means the German ammo could be used without issue(and given it being a softer load, the soviet subguns should have a slower RoF and less recoil with the German ammo). Supposedly they did issue the German ammo for use with the PPSh, but I’ve never seen a source for it, so it may just be a piece of Bubba lore from forums of the early 2000s.
Interestingly there’s even an image of US glider pilots leaving the beaches via a Higgins boat after doing their part in the Normandy invasion. Leaning against the boats wall is two rifles, one is a soviet SVT40. There are a few other SVT40s that came back to the US as trophy guns that were captured during the Normandy campaign. The belief is that the Germans issued these weapons to second or third line troops, or occupation troops to free up more standard arms. The ammo wouldn’t be much of in issue in this roll, and I’m sure they saved some of the what had to be millions of rounds of Soviet ordnance they rolled over in '41.
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In the way you can already pick up enemy weapons after shanking them?
Your mistake here is thinking Finland was part of the Axis forces. It was not. It fought the Soviets in the Winter War.
Yes.
No
And this is why. As they could not use small arms without rechambering them, which makes them way diffrent weapons, requiring diffrent 3d models, textures, etc. It would no longer be copy pasting and at that point you might as well add new weapons that are actually unique.
And all forces we have in-game are first line troops. So it would make no sense to arm them with weapons they never carried.
They may have not been an official member of the Tripartite Pact, but they were a co-belligerent in the Continuation War, kind of a pedantic point.
Replies no to reuse of enemy small arms, yet accepts that they did literally a paragraph later.
The Moscow campaign in game would fall under the personal situation, as the time to to take stock and determine the the best strategic use of enemy munitions would not likely be done and implemented while the focus is the offensive against the enemy. Again, there is no shortage of evidence of German or Soviets picking up enemy kit.
Edit:↑Just now realized these are Fins
Edit2: I think he’s a Fin too
Well they were issued to third line troops in the hope they would never actually be used due to ammo shortages. Issued =/= used.
And a player can already pick up weapons from killed enemies, not requiring any copy paste weapons.
…But issued and used are the same thing from any logistical standpoint… They’re in troops hands, that will require parts for breakages(because soldiers will break anything), ammo for training and foreseeable use. More over these were with soldiers stationed on the Atlantic Wall, not some louts guarding a pub in Berlin. They were intended to be used, or they would not have issued. They even printed German manuals on how to use and maintain the rifles for the troops…
That’s fine, OP asked and made possible request for what he’d like to see in the game. You counter pointed with your opinion, which is fine, that’s what the forum is for. The only reason why I even commented was to counter your assertion that captured weapons were barely used. That simply is not the case. Just to state once and for all, captured weapons were used fairly frequently in general on the Eastern Front. Especially in '41-'42. Edit:As in it was not some unheard of thing, that never happened. I’m not saying the Germans ran around with nothing but PPShs and SVTs.
Nor were they issued enough to warrant their inclusion on the german side. Again, once they are converted, they are diffrent guns and would require diffrent models, as at the very least, the magazines and sights would be different.
That’s an arbitrary and nonsensical limit you’re setting. The Germans used many more standard captured PPSh 41 verse the 9mm conversions. Hell, they almost certainly used more PPShs than they had MG13s or ZB26s at Moscow. When does it meet your “enough?”
When they would take up at least 10% of German used weapons for front line troops. Atm the number lies closer to 1% than 10%.
if captured weapons are added community will ask for girls to get added too so pls no no need for captured weapons just give new unique weapons
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Girls have nothing to do with guns.
Who cares about them anyways?
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