Move the Jagdpanther to BR4 [Redux]

The Jagdpanther is a BR5 tank destroyer, and while it works fine enough there, I think it could be moved to BR4 without any real issue.

Presently the Jagdpanther is outclassed by the contemporary Ferdinand, due to the incredible survivability of its flat 200mm thick frontal armor despite other aspects it does better.

The armor of the Jagdpanther is 80mms sloped at an angle of 55°, which is around 130mms effectively from the front, depending on the angle of the shot. This is incredibly similar to the frontal armor value of a tank destroyer already on BR4, the Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V). The frontal plate is also 80mms thick with a 50° angle, which gives very similar values to the Jagdpanther in terms of effective armor, as seen in the images below.


Additionally, both tank destroyers share the weakspot of the LFP (Lower Front Plate), of which are 50mms thick @ a 55° angle, translating to around 100mms effectively for both. When these are penetrated, it always destroys the transmission, which renders the vehicle unable to move, which is a huge deal for casemate tank destroyers like these that have limited gun traverse.


Another reason I can imagine people using against the lowering of the Jagdpanther is it’s gun, the long 88m PaK 43, the same gun used in the Tiger 2. And while is a strong gun that the Jagdpanther uses, the Panther’s own long 75mm KwK 42 already does a fantastic job at anti-tank engagements. Comparing the Jagdpanther to it’s normal tank counterpart may seem illogical, but shows how it would perform if lowered to the same BR.

As was mentioned earlier, the Panther (and by extension the Panzer IV 70V)'s 75mm gun is very capable at penetrating enemy tanks (192mm penetration), to the point that the 88mm’s extra penetration is redundant most times (234mm penetration). The Panthers also have much more ammunition to use (79 for the ausf A, 82 for the ausf G) while the Jagdpanther only has 39 rounds. In being normal tanks, they also enjoy the free traverse of the main gun, coaxial machine guns, and roof machine guns.

So to simplify the tradeoffs into a more coherent way;

Jagdpanther

+ Better survivability in general
+ Better HE filler for both HE and AP rounds
+ Slightly more penetration (though only neccesary against limited vehicles)
- Casemate design limiting traverse for the main gun and hull MG
- Less total ammunition (39 rounds)
- Harder to use effectively

Panther

+ Main gun and coaxial machine gun have unhindered traverse, as well as having the roof MG
+ More total ammunition (79 or 82 rounds)
+ Easier to use effectively
- Less penetration, though still enough to deal with the vast majority of enemies you’ll face
- Shells have significantly less HE filler, both AP and HE shells
- Less survivable, turret cheek weakspots and shottrap mantlet on the ausf A

So, with the comparisons being made between the Jagdpanther and two other vehicles being made at BR4, I think it would be reasonable to transfer the Jagdpanther to BR4.

Should the Jagdpanther be moved to BR4?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
4 Likes

it suffers from the 88mm curse that is the he acting more like 105mm shell then the 75mm shell when it comes to the area of effect, now tune the 88mm to act close to the 75 he and you might have a point

??? What kind of logic is that?

4 Likes

do not clip out of context, the effective kill area of an german 88mm he shell is far closer to a us105mm he shell then its own german 75mm he shell again i do not know if you are just dense or are lying on purpose

it is clear the 88mmhe is overpowered and i am asking it to be a more fair representation of an 88mm he shell. no one is going to fall to piece over penetration of 75mm vs 88mm at least when it comes to us paper thin armro of everything but the sherman jumbo.

Seems fair to me, M36 Jackson is already BR IV.
Panther trading its turret for a (thin) closed top is a fair deal IMO.

3 Likes

M36 Rank 3 BR 5.3
Vs
Jagdpanther Rank 4 BR 6.3
Yep identical

1 Like

I said no because I am not yet sure if this tank is BR4 material

This tank was added along with Su-100 as premium vehicle first. Eventually Su-100 moved down to BR 4, and it’s been perfectly fine since. I doubt that Jagdpanther would causes a balance concern even if it gets moved down to BR 4 so yea.

3 Likes

Because german tanks don’t already do this in br4 right?

I don’t really care if germany gets ridiculously better tanks, but the U.S. needs it’s corsair back along with a different fighter that has good bombs, and a good br4 attacker.

3 Likes

As if XA-38 with 4x 500 lbs and and P-51 with 2x 500 lbs are not enough. They are BR 3 but we all know that they are actually BR 4 worthy airplanes. Let’s be honest.

Also wdym USA needs a good BR 4 attacker. Most of nations don’t have a good BR 4 attacker options to begin with. USA actually has the best BR 4 attackers. Beaufighter with RP-3 rockets, A20 with 4x 500 lbs bombs all performing better than what others would get on BR 4.

In a discussion like this it’s important to also bring up the state of other German tank destroyers, namely the Jagdpanzer IV and the Panzer IV/70(V).

While both are at BR4, I firmly believe the Jagdpanzer IV belongs at BR3, boasting strong frontal armor but no improvements in firepower compared to its turreted cousins at BR3.

The Panzer IV/70 (V) got moved down to BR4 recently, again boasting strong frontal armor but no improvements in firepower compared to the Panther.

The issue with the Jagdpanther getting moved to BR4 is that it’s a clear upgrade to everything currently at BR4. It would have an upgrade in armor, firepower, and no downside in mobility or reload rate. Sure it’s a casemate but it would be like giving the Jagpanzer IV an 88mmKwK36 and then moving it to BR3, the downside of being a casemate aren’t balanced out properly when it outperforms every other tank at the BR in almost every metric.

The Jagdpanther is a BR5 vehicle stuck competing against BR6 vehicles, and until BR5 is decompressed it will never be the best choice. But that certainly doesn’t mean it belongs at BR4

How can this be BR IV and Tiger 1 BR V ? xD

1 Like

if the T-34-100 and IS-2 (not is-2 44) go to 4, it is possible, since only 100+mm guns can safely penetrate the panther’s armor.

It will also send the 76mm Jumbo to 4 br.

Jagdpanther has -4 km/h reverse speed tho which is abysmally dogshit for casemated TD. Also Jagdpanzer 4 V does have very low silhouette, it is much harder to hit at range especially with an AT launchers i guess. But ofc, Jagdpanther is overall a better tank than Jagdpanzer 4 for sure. Also, Jagdpanzer 4 and Jagdpanzer 4 A both would be fine on BR 3 but ig that’s another topic.

But considering the Panther is what we’d be comparing it to at BR4, having that shitty reverse speed isn’t really anything new

Panther can somewhat mitigate that shitty reverse speed with fast rotating turret and coaxial MG mounted on it. Jagdpanther don’t have those and this combined with shit reverse speed it is actually very uncomfortable to use compared to Panther(as expected)

Yea well IS-2 could go down to BR 4 since it has worse armor and shitty version of ammunition for it’s AP shell but i’m not sure about T-34-100 on BR 4.

I have a mixed feeling about this. On one hand, it makes sense to go down to BR 4 as it clearly not as good as Tiger 2 and Ho-Ri or any USA tanks on the same BR 5 in fact. On the other hand, Sherman with 76mm gun already exists on BR 4(which, i guess they are not that good on BR 4 to begin with but still). But, i think i’m more inclined to that Jumbo with 76mm gun belongs to BR 4 in the end.

Corsair does not belong at BRIV at all.

Considering that the 76mm is basically sidegrade to the 75mm, trading performance against infantry for penetration, I think that 76 Shermans could reasonably get moved down.

1 Like