Thank you, itās evident that you have far more information about Italian weapons; perhaps I will update and supplement it sometime. As I have written, the Italians definitely have a lot to offer, and their tech tree would certainly not be just a copy-paste of the German tree. Except for anti-tank weapons, but that is also the case with the Soviets and itās not a problem.
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Regarding the argument that itās better to keep Germans and Italians together and everyone can play with whatever or whoever they want - purely Germans, purely Italians, or both together - I donāt quite agree.
From the perspective of people who mainly play Germans, itās fine. Italians in the German tree have no impact on their gameplay. Conversely, theoretically, this means more players on the German side, and they can enrich their German squads with some Italian weapons, for example.
But for people who want to play as Italians, the situation is completely different. The only option to play as Italians, in Italian uniforms, and on their historical battlefield is to stick to Tiers 1-3. Therefore, you canāt equip yourself with some of the best Italian weapons or, for example, an Italian paratrooper squad, because that would eliminate Tunis from the available battlefields.
And even if you stick to Tier 1-3 equipment, thereās a huge chance that youāll be thrown into Moscow, Stalingrad, Normandy, the Ardennes, or Berlin. With the exception of Stalingrad, these are battlefields that are simply a glaring mistake for Italian squads. Moreover, your Italian soldiers are more or less Germans with Italian equipment. And finally, even the technology that engineers can build is purely German.
Everything is simply set up so that the game from the perspective of the Germans is fine, but no consideration is given to the Italians.
Thatās also why I almost completely stopped playing as Italians since the merge, because in most cases youāre not playing as Italians, but as Germans on German battlefields.
My only hope then lies in the Italians being separated from the Germans. Only at that moment will we experience playing as Italian squads with Italian weapons, uniforms, equipment, and technologies, all on battlefields where the Italians truly fought.
So, I very much hope that the current total neglect of Italians will be justified by an upcoming separation from the Germans 
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I see this and I love this. However I donāt see why you stopped at BR IV, the Italians have weapons that can definitely meet BRV criteria, and indeed some of the things here are already BRV material, especially the SAFAT and the P43.bis. other Candidates for BRV weapons could be both versions of the Terni Mod. 21(Box Mag fed could be regular tech tree and FIAT-Revelli Magazine could be premium).
Theres also a lot more weapons that could be added in the middle BRs such as the 7.35mm conversion of the Breda Mod. 30, the Semi Auto Conversions of the Carcano M91 and M91 carbine, the Beretta M31 amd M37 semi autos.
Also no CV33?! Cāmon!
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Tankettes should unironically be added for something like a Rider II squad:)
NO.
I really like the gneral idea of this tech tree, but this is a bad idea. And argumenting it with Japan being forced into Tier V using paper tanks is bad as well. This way not only will we eventually end up with the O-I in the game, but this stupid mindset (referring to Darkflow, not to you of course) that every nation needs 5 tiers prevents us from ever seeing campaigns like the Battle of France or the Invasion of Poland.
Btw, I have a couple of questions about your weapon choices:
- First thing is the ZB-26. Yes, it was in the Tunisia campaign, but did Italians ever use it? Because I havenāt found anything about that. And itās not like the ZB-26 is needed there since the FM24/29 was used by Italians (or at least captured by them).
- Panzerfausts and Panzerschreck. I know that they were technically used by the Italian Social Republic, but do we really need all three? Especially that the Lanciabombe supposedly fires HEAT grenades, so it should be viable in Tier III as well, or maybe even in Tier IV depending on the penetration. I think that just one should stay, either the RPzB 54 or the PzF 100.
- I donāt really know if the Cei-Rigotti should be there. It would make for a really cool event squad or a battle pass weapon, especially that it could be Tier IV due to its weaker cartridge and a rather low fire rate.
- The OG-44 should be at Tier II or maybe III, but not really at Tier IV. Considering that it would handle similarly to the OG-43 (which itself belongs in Tier I, not IV) but with a 40 round magazine, it would be almost identical to the Beretta M1 or M38/42 in performance.
- What is the SIA Mod. 38? Because the only thing I was able to find is the SIA Mod. 18, a heavy machine gun made for firing from a tripod. There is only one photo (or at least I think itās a photo) of it with the stock, but it still retains the spade grips, so it canāt be practically handled like an LMG.
Also, Scotti Mod. X and Pavesi M42 are battle pass weapons, the TZ-45 and the Lanciafiamme Mod. 35 are premium squad weapons and the OG-43 as well as the Breda PG (I assume you mean the semi auto model) are event weapons. And while the merge forced some premium and even one event weapon (the M2 mortar) to appear in the tech tree, I believe that this should be avoided as much as possible. Also Iām pretty sure Darkflow would definitely not do something like this with battle pass weapons.
I hope to answer everything in some way
Honestly, regarding the P43 Bis, I havenāt quite made up my mind about whether Iād want it in the game or not. On one hand, thanks to it, there might not be any need for a German tank in the tree, at least I donāt see the necessity for one. Theoretically, it could work without it, but then the final tier would lack a classic tank with a rotating turret. So, itās hard to say, I donāt have a clear opinion on whether it should be there or not.
I was waiting to see if anyone would ask. To be honest, I also didnāt know before that there were quite a few ZB-26s in the Italian army. The Italians obtained them in relatively large numbers in Yugoslavia. I owe this information to @Patton1998 and Iām attaching some of the photos provided by him.
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So, the Lanciabombe will definitely be a very interesting anti-tank weapon, but with its penetration, it falls into the same category as the Sturmpistole, GrB-39, or the Japanese Type 4 and Type 5. This is because the Lanciabombe was reportedly capable of penetrating 70 mm of armor. Given that the Germans supplied the Italians with both Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks, I donāt see a reason why they wouldnāt use them. After all, this is how itās also dealt with in the case of the Soviets, except that the Italians additionally used the Panzerschreck.
It depends on whether there would be an adequate replacement for the Cei-Rigotti, which theoretically could be something like the Terni Mod. 21, as mentioned by @CapitanRastrero, to possibly replace the Cei-Rigotti. But personally, I would be fine with keeping the Cei-Rigotti in the tree; itās kind of the Italian equivalent of the Fedorov.
Well, there isnāt that much difference between the OG-44 and the Beretta M38 (40r). They use the same ammunition and magazines. The difference is in the rate of fire, with the OG-44 having 550 and the Beretta 600, but the OG has a slightly higher muzzle velocity and is lighter, which could make aiming faster than with the Beretta. Anyway, it seems to me that the OG-44 is slightly inferior, but more or less very comparable to the Beretta, so having them on the same level seems fine to me.
I discovered the SIA mod. 1938 through an article by @orizin2. I am primarily drawing from the information he provided. Iāll leave a link to his post for reference: Italian unificated tech tree. However, as an LMG, it doesnāt seem to me that the spade grips are a permanent feature. But itās hard to say, I donāt have more detailed information. In any case, I think itās appropriate to utilize such a weapon in the tree.
Itās hard to say how Darkflow will handle the division of factions, as nothing like this has been done before. Moreover, the originally premium weapon of the 8th Bersaglieri Regiment squad - FNAB-43 - was later also added to Normandy as a commonly obtainable weapon. Apart from that, I would personally resolve it by keeping these weapons for gold cards in the German army, while the Italians would have them commonly available in their tree. Additionally, they could be removed from BP weapons and remain only for those who acquired them during the time of the combined German and Italian forces, similarly to how DF handled the MP 717(r), Thompson, or Breda in Stalingrad.
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very nice mate! has most of the stuff I really miss!!
at first I thought you were missing one of my favourite planes, The SM.91, But you arent, you just have the wrong picture.
picture is SM.92 (should add aswell). This is SM.91
Also really want a place for the AS-42 
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Thanks a lot, man!
You see! I knew there would be some mistakeā¦ It was really supposed to be SM.91, I just got it mixed up with SM.92 when inserting the image.
Agreed, the AS-42 deserves a spot in the Italian tree! Not just in mine, but ideally in that not yet exist game tree too! Iām already preparing an update and adding a variety of weapons and equipment, including the AS-42. Also, thanks to everyone else who provided different sources for more Italian armaments!
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the 43Bis is necessary because the only other alternative would be the Tiger and the latter would be more suitable for 5 (although still inferior to KT and SP) while the Bis for tier 4
another photo in russia
other weapons could be the Scotti anti-tank rifle and its mysterious Breda Mk2
and another anti-tank weapon could be the Belmondo rocket launcher but I never found any photos during the tests
The virtually unknown Italian Breda Mk.II 12.7 mm anti-tank rifle of 1941
Iām in a real hurry so Iāll stop here and continue later
Iām working on something in my spare time (H&G veterans will probably have seen this before) maybe we can work together
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You can add also :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=jNrAsnfI5-k
Baretta1918/30 that is semi auto
Lupara for a shotgun option
Light machine gun Breda Mod.5G\Breda Mod. 5C can be put also before Breda 30 just like there is multiple BARs in the game why not 2 versions of Breda?
ZB vz.30 and MG 42 are also options or Madsen machine gun. There is good replacements for USSR and GE and the ZB and Madsen family can be moved to Italy and MG 42 can be in GE and Italy at the same time.
Scotti Naval rifle can be premium weapon or put at the end also
https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Scotti_Naval_rifle
Isotta Fraschini Mod. Albertini also can be good gold order weapon:
https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Isotta_Fraschini_Mod._Albertini
For Tanks there can be added few German tanks for extra options like:
Pz.III N,Pz.IV G ,StuG III G, and Italian Panther:
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/italian-panther/
Also Carro Armato L6/40 is a good option or Semovente B1-bis for premium vehicles
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Itās already in the game but unfortunately itās a golden weapon
in my opinion the Italian gold weapons should remain in the German tree as exclusives for Germany and tech tree/event for Italy
other semi auto rifles could be the G41 and G43
I donāt know how much sense it would make, they are basically breda with tripod and for use in vehicles identical but for different uses
other LMGs could be there
Terni LMG
Isotta Fraschini LMG
Italy used good quantities of Mg42 but also Mg15
the scotti must absolutely be in the tech tree, it is practically the only weapon comparable to STG or Fedorov (more or less)
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Terni m91 semiauto
Pavesi Prototype SVT Copy
Beretta Model 1931 & 1937 Experimental Semiauto Rifles
Not the only one
Terni Model 1921
and also Cie riggotti with 30 round mag
Well Iām talking about the Breda Mod.5G that is just earlier version of Breda 30 there is even option to make Breda 30 shoot 7.35Ć51mm Carcano while Breda Mod.5G will shoot 6.5Ć52mm Carcano wich will make a bit bigger difference in the damage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_Mod._5C#/media/File:Breda_Mod._5G.jpg
I will have to disagree I donāt think if there is a list of share equipment between Axis and Allies factions. If you have MG 42 with Italy you wont have to grind the same weapon with Germany you will be able to continue the grind with your main faction and be able to play the equipment without starting the grind from the beginning with different faction. The problem before the merge is that you had to grind the same equipment with the same faction on a different campaigns. So you basically had 4 German Factions that you had to grind and it was not fun for German players here you will have to decide will you play Germany with better end game equipment or Italy with better early game equipment.
No it wont cuz Italy will be on every game together with Germany while Japan is a lone wolf if Japan was backed up by Germany it will be different story. Playing Italy tier 3 with Germany tier 5 on your side will be more balanced then Japan on its own. To be honest Italy will bring only diversity to the game without negative effects even if its empty you will be together with the German faction as a support faction and you wont feel it as much as Japan in the pacific that its on its own.
Yeah, that answered way more than I expected, thanks a lot:)
To be fair, Iād rather see a Panzer IV in the Italian tech tree than a wooden mock-up. But thatās just me, I find things like that quite immersion breaking.
OK, I see. I just wondered if that was a real thing, now I know.
Yeah, it would probably be similar to the PIAT, both when it comes to penetration and ballistics. Iām still not sure about having both PzF 100 and RPzB 54 at Tier IV, but the PzF 60 should stay in that case.
Thatās exactly why Iām not a fan of this rifle in the tech tree - it would be an equivalent of the Fyodorov. I donāt think every country should have a select fire rifle in the tech tree, especially in Tier IV. I think it would be a nice battle pass or event (or even premium squad) weapon, but not in the tech tree. Especially that the Breda PG (the semi auto event variant, definitely not the burst battle pass one) would be more then enough for a Tier IV rifle - itās incredibly controllable, has nice sights and a 20 round magazine.
From what I know, the Armaguerra SMGs (both the OG-43 and OG-44) had a fire rate of around 500 rpm. Upgraded, it would be 570 rpm, so the same as the Beretta M1 or M38/42, so I would still put it at Tier III. I donāt know if you have the event Italian paratrooper squad with the OG-43, the OG-44 should handle the essentially same but with twice the magazine capacity.
I would personally not include it until some photos of the gun with a hypothetical pistol grip are available. Especially that there were other LMGs mentioned below that would fill in that gap, for example this thing (whatever itās called, I searched it on Google and it came up as a āScotti 1937 machine gunā):
That might be a decent solution, though to be honest Iām still not a fan of that, especially that it might be possible to find replacements for most of these guns that arenāt BP/event/premium.
Anyway, I really like that kind of mental exercises, so Iāll probably try to make my own āversionā of the tech tree and post it here. Iāll see what I come up with:)
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Why do people want all factions to get 5 ranks so desperately?
Could you give some more information about these two LMGs? Can be in Italian, Iāll use google translate. Because the only thing I was able to find is about the 2nd one in this Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/wtulni/scotti_1937_machine_guns_any_information/, but I still donāt have enough stats to decide where these should be.
Donāt get me wrong, for me we could stop at tier 4 and avoid the chaos of tier 5 but given that Dark, in order to get the Japanese (which are worse off than Italy in high-level terrestrial equipment due to different priorities), they put a practically imaginary tank in tier 5, I prefer to create a tier 5 for Italy as a security measure
TERNI LMG
The āTerniā LMG was designed in 1929, subjected to tests in 1932 and finally approved in 1933, after having attracted enthusiasm for its performance and characteristics, which were remarkable for those times. However, it was never adopted into service, nor is it possible to ascertain how many examples were built. The only one in existence is preserved in the Technical Collection of the Light Weapons Maintenance Center of Terni. The weapon in question shows off an elegant and harmonious line and is carefully crafted in every part, as in the best traditions of the Fabbrica dāArmi. Once the cartridge lubrication device has been eliminated, the locking and firing mechanisms have been revised, and the barrel has been simplified, the āTerniā is made up of approximately 30% fewer components compared to the āBreda '30ā, all milled and finely finished since there are no molded parts, made with excellent materials since the breech, the bolt, the firing pin and the locking block are made of low carbon steel, heat treated to cement the surfaces.
Scotti Isotta Fraschini LMG
The information on the Scotti Isotta Fraschini LMG is quite fragmented and requires more research in the photo you can see one with a 40 round 8 mm magazine (practically an automatic Pavesi 42) but unlike the Terni it was produced in a small batch and used by police units equipped with the Motomitragliatrice blindata Guzzi (I have many more photos of this vehicle with the LMG if anyone is interested)
FIAT 14 EXPERIMENTAL
I have practically no information on this one except that it is a FIAT 14 and that it has been modified to be a lightened version in the style of the MG08/18
another possible experiment we are probably in ww1 or shortly after perhaps an initial version
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The game as it is, with the limited player base it has, should not expand past 4 factions. You can already see it with US BRIII/IV in the Pacific, and depending on the time of day the other factions as well, how underpopulated the game can be.
Now Iām not saying there shouldnāt be more Italian or British/Commonwealth representation or even full on tech trees, just not in the form the current 4 factions have. I believe they should be Sub-treeās within the current factions we already have.
For example the Italians, I think the tech tree you presented should be below the German one, so that players can choose to progress down the German tree or the Italian tree, but have both as the German faction so that when it comes to matchmaking German/Italian players are the same and donāt divide it up further.
The Italian tree would also come with their own squads in this system, so that in the far future if the player base expands and itās not as detrimental to have a 5th faction, then it can be safely done without needing to cause the same squad removal/rework that needed to happen when the 5 german factions became one with the merge. What I mean by this is giving the Italian sub-faction their own tanker squads wonāt require a eventual faction division to need to rework the German tankers to remove all the Italian tanks, since theyād all be in the Italian squads already.
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Once again, thanks a lot for the info. I have couple more questions though about the MGs. Are there any statistics available for the Terni machine gun? Rate of fire, weight and so on? Because from the description you gave itās a āBreda Mod. 30 but betterā, so Iād say that in game it should have maybe lower recoil and be at Tier III. Also, whatās the fire rate of the Scotti? Because considering that it has a 40 round magazine and fires the 8mm round, I think it could be a nice replacement for the SIA Mod. 38 at Tier IV. Though Iām a bit worried that there are no photos of the gun with the stock other than this one:
Yeah, I donāt like that either. Thatās why my version of the tree will likely look less impressive than the original suggestion, but Iām trying to keep it more less authentic, akin to the Japanese tree before the Tokyo Arsenal SMG was added (itās too experimental for me, especially that its fire rate is āa bug, not a featureā).
If the problem is queue times, there is a very easy solution that has no downsides - mixed teams. Italiy and Germany were allies, so I donāt see why they wouldnāt be allowed to play in the same battle on the same side, against for example the US and the Commonwealth.
This way we donāt get longer queue times but the battles would be more realistic as you wonāt see Italians running around with German weapons they never used, not to mention the current issue that you can play Italians in Berlin, Moscow, Normandy and the Bulge.
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