Isolate BR 5 as its own BR

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This could be a hot take, but i think the BR 3 - 4 - 5 interactions would be a lot healthier and balanced if the BR 5 gets isolated as its own BR, without BR 4 gets dragged into fighting BR 5.

Premise
BR 5 have been constantly power crept for many years now and the power gap between BR 4 and BR 5 is greater than ever before.

This makes the BR 4 uniquely disadvantaged against BR 5, way more than the usual 1+/- BR differences that the other BRs would usually have. The BR 4 prop aircrafts obviously, can’t compete at all to the Jets, BR 4 tanks are hopeless against the top BR 5 tanks such as Tiger 2 (H) and Ho-Ri etc(Good luck trying to fight them with 76mm and 85mm), BR 5 SF rifles versus BR 4 semi-auto rifles etc etc. Need i say more? No wonder the BR 4 is the least played BR out of all BR in the game according to the stats.

Let me explain that why i think this change would be better for the game balance

  1. Isolating BR 5 as its own BR can make BR 5 “The crazy BR that everyone fights OP with OP”. Upcoming stuff that are might be too poweful can be added with minimizing the power creep that otherwise would have been OP and too much for BR 4.

This also means that we can buff a lot of underwhelming BR 5 stuff without compromising the BR 4 further. A massive buff for BR 5 AR/LMG and reverting the recoil nerf on SF etc etc? We can have those without any problem. I think we can satisfy the majority of playerbase with this, the playerbase who wants to have a high-octane, meta gameplay that didn’t like the nerf on SF would love this change, the other playerbase who would wants to play much more slow-paced games without stuff like the jets being involved can finally play the game up to the BR 4, no longer need to confine themselves to only BR 1-3.

  1. The BR 4 being “the new BR 5” would be much more fair for the lower BR which is BR 3, than the BR 4 ↔ BR 5 interactions we have right now.

It is a known fact that the BR 3 has a lot of good stuff in it. Some of them could even directly compete to the BR 4 equipment(XA-38, MP-41(r), Ki-100, 30 cal Thompson etc etc the list goes on). BR 3, even when uptiered to fight BR 4 will have much fairer interactions than the BR 4 ↔ BR 5 interactions.

  1. This will also make achieving a better gun balance a lot easier and would revitalize currently obsolete BR 4 stuff.

For example, with this, the BR 4 semi-auto rifles no longer need to be buffed to a ridiculous level just to compete to the BR 5 SF rifles. The BR 4 tanks with a good armour but also with a gun in no way able to compete to the BR 5 tanks like Churchill Mk. 7 will also would see some uses. Most of BR 4 LMG, SMG will also no longer need to be buffed and would see a lot more uses.

13 Likes
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The fact that they believe 10 round semi autos and 50-75 round MGs are comparable to 20-25 round select fire rifles and 100 round MGs is a joke. Or 100 round SMGs for that matter.

Not to mention vehicle disparity…

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3

The gap between BR III and IV is not bad at all. I think many would still choose to play BR III in hope of a downtier.

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This would be the best change to the game in recent years.

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5

Yes please, I’m sick of the masochists who try to enjoy BRIV using their inferiority as a reason we can’t have more BRV stuff that’s powerful.

BRV additions should be increasingly powerful.

2 Likes
6

What’s there even to argue about? The real “controversy” is that Gaijin simply can’t be bothered to build a new BR VI tier — so every single “no” vote is basically based on that, lmao.

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7

I don’t get what’s so hard to understand here. Simply put: you move the stronger weapons out of BR V up to BR VI, and what’s left behind then serves as a transition between BR IV and BR VI — that range becomes a new BR V. I genuinely can’t fathom how some people fail to grasp what “stretching the BRs” actually means. Did they just… not develop a cerebellum, or what?

1 Like
9

This is probably the best temporary solution until BR5 can get docompressed.

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10

I did think about adding a BR 6, but ultimately decided to it’s not the way to go because adding a BR 6 is just another way to add more power creep into the game with an extra step, and this is basically what Warthunder decided to do, extending more and more BR until it gets bloated.

Even when the BR 5 gets cut out of match making like you said, people who wants the best of best stuff that are ‘the’ meta, which naturally much more fast-paced than the other BR will still play the BR 5 regardless i think.

I want the BR 5 to be the ultimate “OP BR”, which also would make balancing a lot easier. If some BR 5 stuff can’t keep up for the standard of new BR 5? Buff them. Are they still awful even after a buff? Bring them down to BR 4. I can see that tanks like IS-2(Not the 1944 obviously) could be BR 4 instead given how lengthy the reload speed is, with the same armor profile as IS-1 for example.

1 Like
11

That’s a problem for them to solve — it’s not an excuse to cram a pile of top-tier stuff into the same room. Instead of worrying about balancing the game for Gaijin, maybe take a look at what they’ve actually been putting out lately.

12

At some point, you gotta accept that some stuff are not gonna happen, even they are the better solution. In a perfect world, we could have so much better reworked BR and stuff, what not. But the reality is, this game is not going to have a major overhaul any time soon. Surely you can at least acknowledge this. I’m not stopping you suggesting a better solution tho ofc, you are more than welcome to try.

Getting so dramatic aren’t we? So me suggesting a reasonable, realistic change that would change the game balance for the better(I think so)and could benefit all of us is me being rotton to the core and trying to dragging everybody down with me. Uh-huh. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

13

Fair enough, I apologize. We should be directing the hate at Gaijin, even if they can’t hear us.

1 Like
14

i’ve given up caring. Now I just wanna see everything fall apart.

15

Yeah, it’s okay. I mean i get the frustration. I had been played Warthunder for more than 10 years just to watch the game gets worse and worse by every updates, so i get it. I just think that the Enlisted is at least, a lot better than Warthunder after all those years, and to give the credit where the credit is due, the Enlisted devs are much more caring than the Warthunder does, if you ask me.

2 Likes
16

you speak truth friend ive stopped playing warthunder due to how bad the games goten so many little things adding into a slog enlisteds devs while smaller do care

17

You know what? The reason I suddenly got worked up is that I realized both sides here have hit on real problems. But before we keep tearing into each other in the comments, I think it’s worth putting the fundamental flaws of both proposals on the table. First off, we need to avoid blindly picking a side

Let me first make sure I understand your criticism correctly
What you’re arguing for is keeping the matchmaking gradient — that BR V won’t become a dead tier, and that the matchmaking logic holds up on its own. But it has three deeper problems.
I’ve played War Thunder for a long time too, and like a lot of people, I plan to stay in the WWII vehicle bracket forever — because I know full well this game’s power creep has no end. Put that problem into Enlisted and it becomes: “What comes after BR VI? BR VII?” War Thunder went from 6.7 to 13.7 over twelve years. Every new tier you add doubles the grind for new players, and early gear basically becomes nothing but a stepping stone.
I also understand that “stretching” is likewise only treating the symptom. It doesn’t solve the “the gap is too big” problem — it just moves the gap up to a higher tier. Today’s BR V–VI gap becomes tomorrow’s BR IV–V gap. And honestly, Enlisted’s player base probably can’t sustain many more BR tiers anyway. War Thunder has the numbers to dilute it; Enlisted doesn’t.
Now, as for my own take — I think you already know it well.

The isolation approach does solve some things: BR IV stops getting stomped, BR III–IV matchups become fairer, and some BR IV gear gets a second life. All of that is true. But I think Gaijin will
absolutely turn a blind eye, because of these three unanswered questions:

First, the dead-tier risk.“The pace is fast, so BR V players will keep playing.” I don’t think “fast pace” counts as a condition at all. Matchmaking time is hard data — you can’t hand-wave it away with a feeling. If the BR V matchmaking pool shrinks to the point of several-minute queues, no amount of pace will keep people around.
The awkwardness I mentioned: BR IV would inevitably become the “new endgame.” Once BR IV’s population recovers thanks to the isolation change, players will — from a pure gameplay standpoint — just default to “BR IV is the real top tier.” Meanwhile, BR V gets isolated into a “VIP zone”: the strongest gear, but no low-tier equipment to stomp. That’s another way of driving BR V players away, and you can’t deny those players exist.
And most importantly:** isolation treats the symptom, not the cause. It keeps dodging the real question
“why is the BR IV–V gap this big in the first place?” Today we isolate BR V. What about tomorrow, when the gap between BR IV and BR III gets bigger? Isolate BR IV too? Just keep isolating all the way down?

So what’s the real disagreement here? This is what gets under my skin.
Isolating BR V is, in essence, accepting BR V as the endgame. Stretching the BRs is, in essence, endlessly postponing the endgame.
The same question:“Should the BR IV–V gap be sidestepped with matchmaking, or narrowed with balance changes?”
If BR V being overtuned is a deliberate endgame power level, then isolation is reasonable — acknowledge it, and let them fight each other. If BR V being overtuned is runaway power creep, then the answer is neither isolation nor stretching — we should be pushing for actual balance: nerf the overtuned stuff, buff the weak stuff, and shrink the gap itself down to a healthy range.
Nobody’s answered either of these questions. So before the “isolate vs. stretch” debate drags on, we should at least settle one thing:do we recognize BR V as legitimate endgame content or not?

1 Like
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This is a fair concern, but you know how awful the top BR ground battles are in Warthunder, yet people still playing them, just because they are the “best of the best” stuff. I’m assuming that the people would still play the BR 5 just fine in Enlisted. Jets, late war heavy tanks and some other top of the line stuff are hard to ignore, after all.

Yes, it would. But the difference is that, BR 4 being “the new BR 5” would be much more balanced than the BR 4 ↔ BR 5 interactions because the gap between BR 3 and BR 4 is not as huuuge as BR 4 and BR 5.

I won’t deny this but let’s be honest. How often did you see a player with a dedicated BR 4 loadout while you were playing BR 5? I don’t know about you, but for me, it was super rare. Even when there was a player with BR 4 stuff, they just had those with some other BR 5 gears mixed in. I’m assuming that the majority of them was actually grinding BR 5 stuff, rather than playing as the BR 4.

IF the game is very active and the updates happen very regularly then yes, this is a better solution. But this is unlikely. I know what you want - you want a frequency of caring that some of the indie games showing up thesedays, a patch in almost everyday and good changes made daily. But come on now. Let’s be real.

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There’s only one nation with a real br4 lineup and I don’t think German 30 round magazines are comparable to soviet 75round smgs or the tkb, as a BR3 enjoyer this just seems like a really stupid idea.

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This is the only BR separation I will actively approve of as I see BR5 as a BR as a “anything comes and goes” BR, but the biggest worry I have is the death of it because of grinders going to BR4 to bully BR3 (such as with the Panther and its super armor)

When I play BR5, I typically use BR5 SFs as a Geweher 43 but better (because I personally can’t handle the recoil well and they’re too costly in both silver and ammo for mass use) and sees jets as a fun thing to hunt down, although if BR4 does become the “top tier” to most players, at least they might stop complaining about jets or something

1 Like
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Which is?

Also, what? are we going to ignore all BR 4 stuff in the game now? Damn, i guess all those people been asking a buff for BR 4 stuff were just a hallucination i guess. :man_shrugging:

No 30 rounds gun on BR 4 for Germany unless you are talking about the STG45(M).

And we have Kiraly 39M and MKB 42(M), MG 34 with 75 rnds. I think they are very much comparable to what the BR 4 Soviet have on BR 4.

And this just seems like someone don’t want their easy peasy BR 3 that rarely fights BR 4 gets taken away. Also as a BR 3 enjoyer myself, this just seems like a really stupid, selfish idea.

1 Like