How about changing the basic income of winning and losing to be the same, and increasing the reward ratio of combat heroes?
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Then, set some targeted combat rewards for low-level new players. Because old players with good equipment are always easier to get the Battle Hero achievement. This will increase the enthusiasm of newcomers and avoid monopoly
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Win bonus needs to go for sure. Or good players from the losing team should be rewarded equally. A good player shouldnāt be punished for having a bad team.
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Battle heroes of the losing team shouldāve been rewarded with the same bonus as the winning team for staying and trying to carry the team that way makes that loss less painful instead of deserting.
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Thatās not the point.
This game is fundamentally less variable and impossible to play strategically.
Only more and more efficient kills are the key to winning or losing.
Thatās why everyone is spamming something and whining about it.
Maybe not in the conventional sense. But there certainly is something Strategic about manipulating teamsā angle of attack by well-placed rally points. Just because next to no one does it, doesnāt mean itās not there.
Cant count the number of times that 1 player dictating the spawn and angle of the team brings back a game from certain defeat.
5 Likes
you may actually win a game simply by building rally close to cap and rush it along with killing people inside if needed only. Thatās by far my best strategy for enlisted, idc about anything outside the cap, and iām pretty sure that if youād gather all the players to sturm the point youād secure it with barely any shooting.
Uh no. That would only cause the game to fall apart much worse. Battle heros already get a boost to the reward. The win bonus is what keeps a lot of players actively pushing or actively supporting. If it switched to the system you are asking for, youād see even more people just trying to farm kills, rather than actually play the game.
The equivalent to participation trophies is NOT the answer.
This really isnāt true. The only time it is, is when the entire team is solo players and everyone is focused on farming kills.
Rally points alone change that drastically. Look at what happens when the rally is placed just further up on the middle path. Troops get there faster but still die.
Move it to a flank, or even have 2+ on flanks, then the entire game can change quite rapidly.
Sandbag walls on both offense and defense, when used strategically, can alter the strategic play of the game significantly.
Pretty much every structure you can build, mine you can place, gunner nest you set up, everything can be used for strategic advantage, heck even equipping a shovel and trenching.
Circling back to the original topic, all of what I listed only works if teams are pushing for the objective therefore the win, not just kills.
PS: Stop adding clickbait topic titles. List what the actual suggestion is in the TOPIC TITLE. Like this one should be āRemove win bonus and focus on Battle Herosā.
2 Likes
rally and those sandbag is not a strategy. Itās basic. And all those are just being spammed to farm kills.
They can be a strategy in your point of view.
The fact is all that mines, AA, sandbags, wires are just spammed everywhere because those have really low cost, and really easy to spam it. Just spamming them nearby the obj is the only strategy, how complicated!
It seems you havenāt had the opportunity to play alongside a SKILLED engineer player. Spamming them around an objective is one thing, but when a player actually has taken the time to learn how to use them more effectively, it plays quite differently.
For example, answer these questions for me:
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How often do you see sandbags in windows with another sandbag wall on the floor behind it to stand on?
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How often do you see player-dug trenches with barbwire in them?
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How often do you see Czech Hedgehogs and anti-tank mines set up on roads/paths to effectively deal with tanks?
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How often do you see mine-fields outside of buildings?
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How often do you see AT field guns being used to attack infantry with HE?
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How often do you see sandbag walls and trenches being used on offense to advance toward objective?
Answer those and youāll see if you have played with a good engineer player with a strategic mindset.
Unfortunately, a lot of players havenāt seen good examples of effective engineers and strategic play, so they just resort to playing like its COD. From what I have seen, players that see the effective strategies will often start to implement them in their play as well.
There are a few players that we have come up against frequently and they seem to be replicating the strategies that I use, undoubtedly because it was effective against them and they have learned from it. I must say the games are a LOT more fun when they do!
In response to the main topic, those of us playing as engineers and actually trying to help the team win the game, would get screwed out of our reward through your proposed system. The win bonus is what gives us our points. If that were changed, we would lose out massively.
2 Likes
i think thereās little time for this, i wish i could do all these things in my regular games, sadly playing objectives is way too foreground, it feels like doing anything apart from rushing the cap is ineffective for me
these things must be set up in advance, because once iād be done building barbed wire trenches the cap would be already lost and putting hedgehogs in the streets would get me killed most of the time because enemy is already rushing, itās super hard to make these under fire
personally i think this game should slow down a little
i love how this game tries to convince you itās tactical game same time having faster game pace than other well known arcade shooters
great job great job
keep going
The thing is that playing solo will usually just play like cod, as many teammates donāt seem capable of holding an objective for any reasonable amount of time. HOWEVER, if you can get at least one teammate that can buy you time, you can move back to the next objective *(if you know where it will go).
This way, when you do get pushed back, the whole team has a much higher chance of holding it effectively.
Personally I usually try to focus on putting up a rally to get people to bypass the ābuild areaā.
I set up my Radio Operator squad with at least one engineer, and AT mines across the whole group. This way, I can go set up tank traps (which can be subtle, as the less likely it looks like a trap, the more likely they will drive right through.) and still be able to call in artillery to help the team in the process.
Then grab a shovel (especially when melee perk increases dig speed), trench 2 wide x 6-7 long/ wire structure. Put it pretty much in the open where they are likely to try to run across. Keep it away from buildings where they could get cover and turn to destroy it. This wire alone is enough usually to buy some time if you get pushed back.
After that, you can go about setting up sandbags and such, switch squads to engineers or MG squad to build nests (all of mine are equipped with AP mines as well so I can immediately lay mines in key locations).
*The suggestion I keep making about letting defenders know where all objectives will be is key for this. All are necessary because some areas just need more time to set up, so going back even 2 objectives is not unheard of. I know a lot of people would say Iām wasting my time and not helping my team, yet if they get there and my team is then able to bleed massive amounts of tickets, its worth it.
To Note: not many players have the strategic mindset to set defenses in advance, so I really donāt foresee entire teams running back to set up defenses, but at least enough to make the game winnable from that location.
To again circle back to the original topic, āPlayerās combat enthusiasmā, getting beaten back from a couple objectives can break their morale a bit, but seeing a fully fortified objective, from which they hold a significantly higher chance of winning, (from what I have seen and heard), brings back a LOT of enthusiasm.
More emphasis on individual gameplay over final group results would certainly be good. The current system provides incentive for all sorts of behaviors destructive to the game.
Awards are pretty bad as well, however. Arguably even worse than the win bonus because they result in even fewer players getting āfullā reward.
I agree that everyone should be rewarded for sticking with the battle to the end. With the winners only marginally getting better rewards, if at all.
Although, this may result in some people joining a fight and just sitting AFK to farm.
in addition to the fact that this will cause players to just farm instead of playing objective iāve already fielded a lot better suggestion quite a time ago (Victory conditions rework) idk why it didnt blow upā¦ it was tought out so well
1 Like
Because āwell thought outā does not āblow upā generally speakiong. To get a huge response in current year you have to go for emotions and fit the short attention span.
Iād say thatās one of the main reasons why itās nearly impossible to use public opinion for improving games (or anything remotely complicated really). The loudest, most energetic and consilidated opinions tend to be received from someone else. Usually from dubious sources and through dubious means, as it often goes with received opinions.
2 Likes
I hear that alot, āthereās not time to set up a rally. must rush the objective.ā
While rushing the objective is important, if you donāt take it in your one push, you have to go all the way back to starter spawn. Any enemy you have cleared off the objective in your push will be back before you (especially if they have rallys). You will have achieved next to nothing
it takes 6 seconds for an engineer with the right perks to put down a rally (you wont acheive anything better in that 6 seconds). And you can even order one of your bots to do it. And that will shave off Sooooooo much more time reinforcing the points. instead of having to run 200 meters to objective, you only have to run 60 meters (properly places rally). and if there is More than 1 rally this close it doesnāt get clogged up waiting to become available and you can reinforce much faster.
And if your team is continuously running into a brick wall, Its well worth taking a 3 minute detour to a flank around the battle, to set up a rally to change the angle of attack (matter of leverage). Brought back so many games from the brink of defeat by doing this.
Engineer class is the ultimate strategy class and I love the whole establish your supply/logistics it brings to the game
I think War heroes getting full xp even when losing isnāt such a bad thing.
okay, but wouldnt making defenders know where next objective will be a bit OP? after all, it means that teams that wont spend time fortifying next objective will be at a disatvantage if we balance the game for fortified objectives
That is a good suggestion as long as no battle heroes awards would be removed from being able to be gained by old players.
Maybe if you are like less than level 10 in campaign you could be eligible to earn a special set of battle heroes awards for noobs. Perhaps their rewards could be slightly less than the normal ones incase thereās few new playes in a match ig?
Thereās probably some better way It could be implemented but I like your base idea there. Def has some potential to retain new players if they feel they can progress faster you know?
1 Like