Just a quick reminder that we haven’t gotten a shotgun fix, and those weapons perform worse than most melee weapons in their current state.
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I almost prefer not having to deal with shotguns in this game.
The TOZ in Moscow was pretty solid from the times I used it. Solid enough damage at shogun ranges (0-50yds) but the double barrels kept it from being OP.
With a somewhat realistic, historical shooter like Enlisted it would be impossible to balance shotguns in a fair way.
If you’re being realistic shotguns would be/are ultra lethal when used against unarmored targets (body armor of any type was not common during the period). Especially considering shotguns are much more lethal at range then stereotypically assumed, 00 buck ( the most common self defense and hunting shotgun load in America) can be lethal beyond 50 yards (45.7m).
If you’re being fair and balanced a shotgun would have to be practically useless. It’s why in most other less realistic shooters the shotguns are either dumb crazy or forgettable.
Well I would point to a game like rising storm Vietnam, to show that shotguns can be useful without necessarily been the ultimate weapon.
And even in enlisted double barrel shotguns where not OP, at all, yet they got nerf in to oblivion without any reason what so ever. I just want that changed back, or maybe the weapons reworked to a point they are good enough to use again.
I think it comes down to how annoying shotguns become if they’re too good, even when not OP.
No one likes getting one shotted from a low skill weapon.
the reason bolt action rifles feel good in this game is because they’re high skill/high reward, and even when you’re killed by them it feels fair and makes sense. The same couldn’t really be said about a shotgun. It’s why they’re so controversial and many folks want them removed from FPSs. They’re fun killers.
Historically shotguns were used and documented on battlefields but they certainly weren’t common.
Not common enough to say, have a whole team on an enlisted bringing at least one assaulter with a shotgun per a squad.
One shotgun on the battlefield isn’t gonna be necessarily gamebreaking at all, but 1 per squad? Perhaps multiple squads with multiple shotguns? On an urban map or dominating an objective? Especially if they’re the least bit too OP?
Yeah no thanks.
Another shotgun thread ?
by the gods i knew there would be another one i must be able to see the future.
Just revert the shotgun change gajin jesus
Shotguns aren’t bad, smgs are just more viable.
If they kept the shotgun squads we had in alpha, more people would use them.
But at the end of the day, they are just sniper, Flametrowers and mortar squads, they are worth from time to time on specific maps, but since we can’t select the next map we want to queue in, I rather have an assaulter squad than any of the above
how can anything be “too good” in enlisted literally everything is already really easy to kill with
The shotguns aren’t really a “low skill weapon”
Shotguns cant really be overpowered in a game where they are restricted to the same squad member that can use fully automatic submachine guns. smgs are almost always preferable to shotguns even the pump action one in most situations.
Shotguns in enlisted are just abit of fun to be honest something different to use they will never be “OP” when everything in enlisted can effectively kill you in a few hits.
Shotguns aren’t bad, is just that knifes are more viable, without an ammo limit, similar range in every sense, and also more reliable.
Seriously, if you had to pick in between a starter reserve rifle and a shotgun, the choice is obvious.
Even when they were good, shotguns were a side grade to those rifles at their best.
But right now anything and everything out classes any shotgun, even a knife. There simply isn’t a reason to punish your self with a halo 2 shotgun when you got real rifles, smgs,knifes or weapons in general around you.
I don’t know enough about how the game handles the individual projectiles from a shotgun, but here’s some speculation:
The game quotes shotgun caliber at 2.06mm, which is smaller than number 9 birdshot and almost certainly has never been used in combat for a shotgun. This makes a lot of sense for why shotguns aren’t as lethal as we think they should be, since there’s 1 to 1.5oz of tiny lead balls not doing a lot on impact and spreading out.
If the game actually tracks projectiles and isn’t simplifying shotguns into a cone-shaped damage invisible flamethrower type deal, they could switch to standard military 9-pellet 00buck shells. absolutely lethal up close, lethal on a lucky hit at extended ranges but you’re gambling on those.
I don’t think more realistic shotguns would break the balance on them, since there’s a limit on how much ammo they can carry and how quickly they can be reloaded, but it might be a technical challenge to make them more realistic depending on how the game currently does those shot and damage calculations.
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I’ve had fun with shotguns until now. They might not kill at medium ranges in 1 shot but 2-3 shots does the trick. They’re not good but certainly not as bad as some smgs I’ve had to deal with.
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The game uses projectiles, and each shotgun shell has 12 buckshot, each buckshot doing 2.4 damage, so you need 5 buckshot to the chest to down. Before the nerf, break action shotguns used to have 14 buckshot per shell, and each buckshot did 4.5 damage, meaning you only needed 3 to the chest to down.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification!
Neither of those is accurate to military shotgun loads, though, and I think they could make them more accurate historically without breaking the game.
Typical military shotgun loads for WW2 (at least for the US, I can’t find data for Luftwaffe survival loads or soviet usage) were 2.75 inch shells loaded with 9 00buck (.32) pellets.
Have them do 4.5 each, and keep the spread consistent with real life. A combat shotgun with this load:
" The buckshot typically used in a combat shotgun spreads out to a greater or lesser degree depending on the barrel choke, and can be effective at ranges as far as 70 m (75 yards). The delivery of the large number of projectiles simultaneously makes the shotgun the most effective short range weapon commonly used, with a hit probability 45% greater than a sub-machine gun (5-round burst), and twice as great as an assault rifle (3-round burst).[2]"
This makes the shotgun an ammo-limited hand of god at close range, limited in use for moderate ranges, and practically useless at extended ranges.
TBH, combat buckshot should be doing more than 4.5. That’s the damage on the korovin, and .25ACP is supposed to be a centerfire .22lr and doesn’t really achieve that.
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small correction: the shotguns used to have 24 pellets, not 14.
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Of course the game suggests the damage is 345.6 at 10m, but that’s simply not true - with that damage value, each pellet would have to be doing 28.8 damage! That would oneshot even on single pellet hitting a soldier in legs… Could the erroneous data shown ingame (especially pre-nerf) have been justification for the nerf in the first place?
The data card must be calculating damage as 2.4 x 12 x 12 = 345.6 instead of the actual damage value it should be showing: 2.4 x 12 = 28.8. (pre-nerf damage value was shown as 4.5 x 24 x 24 = 2592…)
At 40m range, that 28.8 damage would become 14.4 damage (comparable to bolt-action, and thus definining an upper range limit on shotgun usefulness), but of course at that range some pellets will already be missing so in practice the useful range is less than that.
At close range, due to tighter-than-usual-for-a-fps-game pellet spread, the shotguns need practically the same precision to deal damage to enemies as you need with a bolt-action or a semi-auto, which both only need a single shot to down an enemy, leaving no niche for shotguns - at really close range they aren’t better than rifles, and at slightly longer range they’re not better than SMG’s, and at long range they’re utterly horrible.
That they are additionally worse than the other options in total ammo capacity, reload times and shots before reload does not help.
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At this point, “realism” matters little in terms of the% of soldiers who carried a certain weapon. In Normandy there is a spam of FG-42 being that this was a weapon that was given only to elite paratroopers. And so there are more examples
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Think they may bring the squads back in the late levels along With a slight buff? Or am I being too hopeful lol